October budget going to be painful

[increasinglyconcerned]

Here we go..... I knew it. Labour were promising not to hike our taxes in the election campaign and here we are.... apparently they discovered £22 billion black hole in his first weeks in the role and it's not his fault.

Let me guess, those of us who earn six figures and already pay 45% will pay EVEN more and take home even less. It's the hard workers who will take the brunt. What's the point in working anymore!

I earn a little over £120k and I'm taxed the same as those earrings £500k.

Before people jump in saying they don't feel sorry for me, I work full time to support my family, as of January I will have 2 DCs in nursery, plus my mortgage and get ZERO free hours childcare, whilst they keep promising free childcare but I just pay more for everyone else to benefit.

I cannot afford to pay more taxes to fix this country and especially when so many people are getting a free ride and not paying their way, ranging from millionaires with tax havens to those claiming benefits dishonestly.

Not to mention entirely counter productive for the economy and all services

Well arguably it is a choice.

Cheaper nursery.

Nanny

Childminder.

There will be cheaper childcare options.

I think that fundamentally people find it really hard to imagine someone else’s life.

A person on £120k may have worked incredibly hard during their training years and had to work late at night and have had leave cancelled and they often have had to work the whole weekend and miss out on family time. They will have cut their cloth according to their income so will have gradually developed a certain lifestyle. They may then reach the peak of their profession and earn a six figure salary. However they are then responsible for many people’s lives, and have the pressures and responsibilities that come with that. They may have to answer for the company in court, or present regular data to shareholders or take overall responsibility as a consultant of a busy medical team. That crushing responsibility can feel very stressful and lead to sleepless nights. And when they want to think of other jobs, they panic because they have built up a certain lifestyle And other jobs may not provide enough money to sustain it. Of course they have made certain choices, but it doesn’t mean that they don’t feel impossibly stressed when faced with financial change and wondering where the extra money will come from. I think somebody on 30,000 might look at somebody on 120,000 and think that they are lucky to have £90,000 more to spend, so what are they complaining about. But it is really like that. People don’t tend to save every salary increase. They tend to take on more expenses, get a bigger mortgage etc ; that’s how humans often are. People on high incomes are often very stressed.

At the other end, many people don’t understand what it is like to earn £20,000. To literally have to look at your bank balance from month to month and plan meticulously. To worry about the start of school and not having uniform for your children. To panic about having lunch money for the kids. To have a low paid job to get to, and worry about the cost of transport and petrol. Or to not have a job and be dependent on benefits because you are looking after a disabled child. You simply do not have the opportunities to find work even if it was available. You get paid a pittance as a carer And each day is full of physical work and financial stress. And then the added element of stigma for not working. It must be galling to hear how somebody on a higher salary is saying that your life is easier, you don’t work hard and you have less worry. And of course eg a low paid HCA is also responsible for people’s lives so still has that stress.

I think people of all incomes can be extremely stressed. Of course the person who can’t actually afford to eat or heat their home is having the toughest life. And ultimately has far fewer choices. But I think it is possible to empathise with people on all salary bands. Because for them at moment in time, the stress is real. When someone is feeling overwhelmed, it is very difficult to look at others in worst positions because for you at that time it all feels too much.

Lots of people are tired and anxious right now. It’s not confined to one salary bracket. What can be helpful when discussing this stuff IRL is to ‘know your audience’. Otherwise is just ends up like this thread.

As I’ve already said on this thread, if you are on a career path where earning 120k is a possibility it’s because you’ve been privileged enough to access higher education and / or formal training. Not everyone has that privilege. Read my comments to understand better but you’ve got to be pretty dense and out of touch be making comments like this.

Husband earned 120k+ and he came from a really poor background. yes he went to uni, but so could his brother if he could have been bothered to put any effort into his education.

and what about breakfast club and after school club? You seem ignorant.

Well arguably it is a choice.

Cheaper nursery.

Nanny

Childminder.

There will be cheaper childcare options.

No cheaper nurseries that provided the hours needed. Nanny and childminder were no good as there was no back up if they were sick. There are no cheaper childcare options as she'd have used them obviously.

and is your husbands brother better off than you? Because unless he is this comment is completely irrelevant!

Why did you get yourself into debt?
Most people try to live withitgeir means.

When they saw how gleeful many people were about VAT on schools, they knew it was a culture war win and I knew it would go further.

They know the crabs in a barrel mentality is very strong in British culture. Thus they will keep coming for higher earners on PAYE. I knew it would be the thin edge of the wedge.

Eventually we’ll all be reduced to being the underclass, wearing Tommy Robinson t-shirts, waiting for Whetherspoons to open and fighting with police outside asylum seekers hostels during the hours when we used to work to contribute.

It says "Labour will not raise income tax, national insurance, or VAT."

I don't need to argue it means anything else, because I understand simple English.

I am on UC, and am dreading the budget. I will probably be personally blamed for all the debt, and everyone always punches down.

If you put more money into your pension, the economy is not necessarily worse off than you paying a higher rate of tax directly.

What do you think happens to your pension contributions? They are invested - often in quite useful long term infrastructure projects as well as into equities, government bonds, private equity etc.
Those assets that they invest into then pay corporation tax, there are taxes on dividends etc.

It's not a zero sum game.

It was the multi millionaire chancellor George Osborne who originally said it.

Such inconvenient things, facts.

Quick change of angle there!

"Fairness also means that across the entire deficit reduction plan, those with the broadest shoulders will bear the greatest burden. Those with the most should pay the most, and that includes our banks."

G. Osborne, October 2010

@Moomin2020 BIL earnt about 20% of what husband did, but i think my point is still relevant. I was stating that you dont have to be priviledged to earn a load of money, it just requires some effort. Husband worked hard at school and work, BIL didnt; it was their backgrounds that made the difference because they both had the same start.

wasnt their background that made the difference.....

Completely agree, OP. The fact that a PP said you should've chosen a less lucrative career, smaller house or fewer children is SO TELLING!

Choosing a less lucrative career is seen as a way to have an... easier financial life.

It's completely wrong & the country simply won't start functioning any better once high earners leave / cut down hours.

But of course, you're in the wrong because you've worked hard. I'm not saying others earning less don't work hard, but many people on high incomes sacrificed their social life in school, sacrificed doing the subjects/jobs they love for something more lucrative, have high job pressures and long hours etc. it's wrong to be punished for it.

It's the politics of envy, and counter productive. Most high earners I know are happy to pay their share & actively want to, but resent the fact that they're taxed till they squeak while others don't work for it. Therefore, they exploit every loophole, cut hours etc to minimise tax. I'm sure the country loses out more than if we had a fairer system!!

I disagree, higher education is a privilege. Also, if you end up in a career path that pays more. Effort doesn’t really come in to it. I think the majority of people are putting the most effort they can in to what they are doing, and thank goodness! But no, a nurse, teacher, any allied health professional, supermarket clerks, waitresses etc. are never going to earn 120k, all skilled jobs, all requiring a lot of effort.

I’m not denying that your husband and others work hard, I’m simply stating that other people work hard and will hit an earning potential ceiling in the careers a lot sooner. Your husband’s income is not solely down to hard work and effort and believing so is part of the problem.

As for education and training being a privilege, I absolutely stand by that. It’s great your husband managed to get his head down and go to university but I absolutely refuse to believe that the only reason other people don’t is due to laziness.

it’s about having kindness, compassion and understanding that life is harder for other people, they don’t deserve to suffer eternally