What is an alcoholic?

[Ilovepugs2017]

I’m concerned about the drinking habits of someone close to me.

What would you say is the definition of an alcoholic?

How many drinks? How often they drink?

The mentality of not being able to adhere to safe drinking guidelines.

Not being able to stop at one or two, drinking alone, drinking effecting work/friendships/relationships, getting injuries when drunk

Hiding their drinking, not being able to go without, not being able to stop at one glass changes in behaviour. What things are making you concerned?

Needing more and more drink. Not being able to stop.
Not being able to spend time doing something without thinking about drinking.

I found this helpful when I was worried about someone

Being powerless over alcohol. Not having a "stop" button once you've had the first drink.

Drinking 3 or more times a week every week would be my view. I think it's reasonably common for couples to drink a bit on a Friday and Saturday evening quite often but more than that seems more like dependency than for fun.

I think it's someone who is dependent on alcohol and can't get through life without it. They need to drink, if not every day then most days and experience personality and behaviour changes when they try to stop.
Can't say no or function without it.
Will drink alone.
Will put drink before relationships, or work.

There are different levels of alcoholism though...I've known some very "functional" alcoholics who hide it well and others who have completely destroyed their lives through alcohol. It's the dependence that's key, I think.

A pattern of putting alcohol above other things in life, to the detriment of themselves and / or others.

Being powerless over alcohol

The word 'alcoholic' means different things to different people and there was never any one agreed-upon definition.

So now 'Alcohol Use Disorder' is more commonly used.

They say it's 'If your alcohol use is causing a problem for you or for someone else'

Being reliant on drink over a long period of time. Drinking because it’s a necessity rather than an enjoyment.

I don’t think drinking alone is a sign in itself. As a single parent I enjoy a few glasses of wine on a child free evening (once a week), but I’ve never woke up at 3am on my sofa wondering where the evening went. Drinking alone most nights isn’t healthy and a slippery slope for sure.

Really? An alcoholic if you have a drink more than twice a week??

OP - MN is generally not the place to come for realistic views on alcohol (mis)use, though some PPs have posted useful info from other sources.

Increased tolerance, (needing more to get the effects of alcohol), withdrawal symptoms, cravings, preoccupation with drinking, unsuccessful attempts to quit or cut back, and negative consequences of drinking. If friends or family have brought it up with you then it's probably been noticed by others. That's my criteria anyway.

When not having it is a problem

Completely agree. Don't ask Mumsnet.
https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/health-effects-of-alcohol/mental-health/alcohol-dependence

'Alcoholic' isn't a very useful term, it conjures up images of people staggering around in gutters and that's not what alcohol misuse looks like in most people.

Having a problem with alcohol is... a huge, huge spectrum of behaviour really and no two people will be affected in exactly the same way. As someone with both parents who have problems with booze (a binger and a dependent drinker), I'd say the major red flags are things like:

• not being able to stop drinking once they've started
• feeling like they can't enjoy an event without alcohol
• suffering in some way as a result of drinking (eg. financially, physically) and still being unable to stop
• neglecting other serious responsibilities (eg. children, pets) for the sake of alcohol
• minimising the situation to mask the problem, eg. this beer is weak / I'm only on halves / it's not like I'm having vodka for breakfast
• blaming other people when challenged - XYZ gets me drunk when he goes out, I drank as much as ABC, etc etc

It's not really about how much they drink or how many days they drink - there are low risk guidelines (14 units per week) but most people who have problems with booze are so far beyond those limits that they're not a useful barometer.

I think dependency is normalised a lot, but yes if almost or more than half of the week people are relying on alcohol it's changing from a bit of fun to a reliance.

Its just not healthy long term. Its fine around Christmas or a busy social time but if it's all year long then drinking ~50% or more of nights is excessive.

There's no universally agreed upon definition. It's not necessarily about drinking every day. Rather, it's about behaviours once drinking starts.

When I went to Al-Anon one common factor tended to come up a lot - once they start drinking, they find it difficult to reliably control how much they drink or know when to stop. And/or they repeatedly make promises about not drinking, or not drinking "too much", and fail to meet those promises.

Some other warning signs:

• They're the "life and soul of the party"
• They're the last person to leave the bar/party
• They seem put out when someone else isn't drinking and try hard to - make others drink with them
• They have lots of heavy-drinking friends
• Often finds excuses/reasons to drink
• Lies about how much they've drunk
• Hides alcohol, covers up how much alcohol they're buying, and/or hides empty bottles
• Gets anxious or irritable when a plan that includes alcohol gets changed at the last minute to one that doesn't

@PurpleSky300 those are some excellent red flags.

I'm worried about a relative.
We were all together at a big family gathering in a big house for a week - at six we'd have a glass of something ahead of dinner. He would start then and have two or three beers and then with dinner several glasses of wine. Then after dinner back onto beers again or even spirits.

So whereas we would be having one drink before dinner then maybe a couple of glasses of wine, he would probably drink 10 units a night.

My DH went into his room to get sth (with his permission) and there were a couple of bottles of whiskey half drunk which he was clearly keeping to himself. Later in the week he saw the bottles much depleted ...

Also his hands shook a bit as we got towards the end of the day towards 6pm ...

But you are using the word ‘reliance’, when for most people who drink maybe 1 night in the week as well as twice at the weekend it is not. Some people actually enjoy the taste of a glass of wine or bottle of beer. It doesn’t have to be some kind of emotional crutch or mummy’s little helper. Dependence is actually clearly denied clinically. Alcoholism less so, but can generally be assumed to be synonymous. And your criteria is way too simplistic.

Another trait I see a lot in my daily life is - becoming intensely and irrationally angry when other people choose not to drink. "Oh you're so dull, enjoy yourself, let your hair down!", and those sort of comments, refusing to buy someone soft drinks, etc. My DF once told me that he'd find it almost painful to go in a pub and not drink, because you're surrounded by other people drinking and you'd see it and the temptation would be 'torture'.

@BumpyaDaisyevna those are all significant warning signs.

It might not be ‘healthy’ but it doesn’t make someone an alcoholic. It’s perfectly possible to choose to drink too much without being an alcoholic. Mumsnet is incredibly ill-informed on what alcoholism actually is.

I speak as someone who has quite a lot of experience of dealing very closely with alcoholics: an alcoholic is a million fucking miles away from someone who has a couple of glasses of wine most nights - even every night. Is it especially healthy to drink a couple of bottles of beer or a couple of glasses of wine every night? Not really, no. Does it mean someone must be an alcoholic? Also no.

OP, you need to look at credible sites for addiction advice. You won’t get a proper medical definition of alcoholism from Mumsnet.

I stopped drinking when I used to get nervous about going out drinking because I knew I wasn't in control of the amount I would drink, carried on drinking at home when I lived alone after a night out (whole bottle of wine after drinking all night in the pub), felt shakey and drunk at work a lot (constantly triple checking work) and the list goes on. I could spend 4 days a week not drinking but I knew that when I started again I wouldn't be in control of it. Had to give up in the end and it has now been 15 years of sobriety - best decision I made!