To think having an indoor cat is cruel?

[Catnope]

I was looking after my mother’s cat last week - feeding him while she was on holiday and changing the litter tray - and I felt so incredibly sorry for the cat. It’s not the first time I’ve looked after him for her, and not the first time I’ve thought that.

What a shit life for the cat.

Of course I don’t like the idea of cats killing wildlife out there, but to be a prisoner indoors 100% of the time your whole life?!

It’s cruel. Right?! Just me?

Of course I was nothing but lovely to my mother and took good care of the cat. My mother doesn’t let him out because she fears he’ll get stolen or run over. She lives on a quiet and safe street, so I don’t think anyone will want to steal him. At this point, I also think he wouldn’t have a clue how to kill a bird.

Depends on the cat. Although I have more sympathy for 25 million wild birds killed annually by domestic cats.

I agree that a completely indoor cat is cruel, a catio is a bit better because then at least the cat can experience fresh air.
I keep mine indoors at night, which is when they're most likely to hunt and get hit by cars.

I actually know someone who lost two dogs and a cat in a house fire when we were in primary school, her family went out for the day and the house burnt down and the animals couldn't escape. So I don't like the idea of my cat being trapped inside by herself with no escape.

Don’t get a cat is an option. And always adopt.

It's interesting, both of the cats I have had have been supervised outdoor access only. The first loved play but wasn't interested in sitting on laps. Her favourite thing was her cork on a string toy. Her little furry bottom would wiggle away before she pounced and she (and us) got hours of entertainment out of it. Although she didn't do laps, she always liked to be where we were. If we weren't paying her attention, reading a book, on the phone, she would paw at whatever we were absorbed in. She passed away at 16.
Our second cat has very little interest in more interactive toys. We tried him with the cork on a string. He looked at us like we were mentally deficient 😝. He likes his catnip kicker and his scratching post, though. But he's a real lap lover, even in summer when the last thing you want is a furry hot water bottle.

Both happy cats in their own way, loving in their own way.

Even if every single pet owner adopted from rescues, cats would still breed and exist. There are so many feral colonies out there.

Literally the exact same vibe as “racism doesn’t exist because no one is racist to me” and “Covid isn’t real because I haven’t contracted it”. Listen to yourself 😂

@sunsetsandboardwalks Where do the feral cats come from?

Great point 🤣

I particularly like the “no complaints about my cat” - two main reasons for that:

1. how the fuck are we supposed to know who owns the cat seeing as it’s out unsupervised?
2. we know (as shown by this thread) that outdoor cat owners are too selfish to care about anyone else, they have no qualms in letting cats impact other people because “it’s legal” 🙄 so no point in attempting to track down an owner

My parents had loads of cats,they were all allowed outside but one of them had no interest in leaving the house.

She'd step outside to 'relieve herself'(as my mother used to say),but she'd often try to do it with one paw in the porch.

And the ferals thrive so well without humans don’t they? These “wild animals” that everyone professes them to be!

I visited Turkey and the number of ferals is insane. It was actually heartbreaking seeing the starving, grubby, poorly cats and kittens out begging for food from humans.

Because that’s what they need to survive, being a domestic pet - humans!

Well, of course they originally came from abandoned/neglected pets.

But my point was that even if every single person rescued their cats, ferals would still exist and kittens would still be born. We can't turn back the clocks and go back to a time where cats don't exist and don't roam - it would be impossible.

I never said ferals thrived - I said that they'd always exist because there are too many of them to neuter and control. So even if every single person neutered their pets and adopted from rescues, we would still get kittens. We can't shut the gates now, there are just too many of them to "control" as it were.

People seem to want to either get rid of cats altogether or magically turn them into animals who will happily live indoors - it's just not going to happen. We domesticated them and now they're proving inconvenient, we don't want them anymore. It's typical of human behaviour. We did the same with pigeons.

Noooo, racism and COVID are real, and cats getting eaten/stolen/run over is also real.

Never the less different actions carry different amounts of risk-

for example letting your cat out if you live on busy road puts it at greater risk of being run over than if your nearest public road is 2 miles away.

similarly if your way of letting it out is through the window of a 3rd floor flat then it’s at greater risk of injury than if it leaves through a cat flap on the ground floor.

My experience only tells me that my assessment of risk for my specific circumstances is proportionate.

The UK doesn’t have anywhere near the feral problem as other countries, yet even there, laws have come in to prevent free roaming.

that’s like saying “you’ll never get rid of murderers, so let’s just make it legal to kill people”.

You have to deal with the actual problem.

An indoor cat is a kindness to neighbours who don't like cat shit in their gardens.

I have a few friends with indoor cats and v
catios which works well.

@Sounreasonable okay? I don’t know what you want me to say to this. Good for you that your specific circumstances mean you’ve only had one cat hit by a car (as if this itself is an achievement). This isn’t the reality for many outdoor cat owners, and certainly isn’t the reality for the 3/4+ cats a week I see go missing or killed by cars.

Well yes, but until the law changes, you can't expect people's behaviour to change - so it comes back to the fact that the government needs to step in and make it illegal for cats to free roam, with consequences in place if people don't follow (like in Australia).

At the moment, I have a cat who thrives outdoors and is miserable inside - why would I keep him in and make him sick if I didn't have to? I can't think of many pet owners who would deliberately make their pets sick when there were other, legal options.

Yes, you can argue that he shouldn't exist if he can't cope with modern life, but he's here and I'm hardly going to have him PTS when letting him out is a perfectly good, legal solution to his "problems".

I don’t want you to say anything. I’m just making the point that keeping a cat in all the time, making it wear a lead or only having a catio is frequently not a proportionate response to the level of risk.

If someone lives somewhere where the risk of harm to a roaming cat is such that keeping it in etc would be a proportionate response, the sensible answer is to not get a cat.

We didn't cat proof the garden for the neighbours or the local wildlife, we did it to protect our cat mainly from the little bastards with catapults who were shooting at anything that moved. Our cat never went far but used to like snoozing on the front window sill and would have been a prime target for them.

They've been quiet for a while so I'm hoping the evil little shits drowned in the river when they were catapulting the swans and geese - they killed the male of a pair who'd been coming back for years so a snoozing cat wouldn't have stood a chance.

This is such a misguided and ignorant statement. You’re literally basing a whole generalisation that cats are better off outdoors on your experience entirely. I am basing my perspective that the risk is much, much higher than you’re making out on the experiences and tragedies of the hundreds of cat owners I’ve worked with. I think I have a much wider reference point to work with.

You’re basically saying “unless you’re privileged like me and have miraculously only had one cat run over, don’t get a cat”. Get over yourself. You’re talking complete rubbish and sounding so entitled.

Some breeders stipulate the cat must be kept indoors as part of their agreement to sell you a kitten.
I think it's better to have 2 indoor cats so in theory they have a playmate. I have 2 indoor cats. They don't seem to mind being indoors but I don't think they've forgiven us for having children

This.
i go in and out my front and back door with no worry about the cats going out.
they have the garden but neither wants to go in that! They have had harnesses before the garden was done, the one was happy to go out in the garden on it, the other wanted no part in it.

my old outdoor boys were constantly attacked, i used to keep them in at night to stop this.

my old boys never bought anything in, in-fact were terrified by small animals. ( had 2 house bunnies and exotics animals, never had any fear of them attacking them).

i know one of my young girls now would be a great hunter. I could not have any small pets with her around as i would not trust her.
my house is filled with stuff. If they were not happy you could tell.

It’s really sad how many people use the lack of legal control to try to clear their conscience. You wouldn’t look favourably on the smoking next to kids example made earlier, this is no different. It’s no wonder we need so many laws when people are so unable to regulate their own behaviour. Really sad.

You are prioritising one animal’s well-being over and above the hundreds, if not thousands of animals that it will kill over its lifetime, above your neighbours pets and their right to an enjoyable life, and above your neighbours right to enjoy their property without it being full of shit and piss that’s your responsibility. It still isn’t justified.

I think one of the main issues is that you don't know whether a cat will be happy indoors (or not) until they're adults. And even then, it can depend on the environment and how safe it is.

I've known of feral cats who settle indoors quite happily, and previously inside cats who have then become desperate to escape - cats are rarely logical!

We got all ours with the intention of keeping them in and while two would be absolutely fine inside, the other isn't - even though they're all provided with the same stimulation etc.

So it's all very well saying "don't get them if you can't keep them happy" but you just don't know how your cat will be long-term. Very few people are going to give their cats away or put them to sleep if roaming is an option.

Considering all my neighbours also have cats who go outside, I really can't bring myself to feel bad about it - you can keep banging on about it all you like though.