To think having an indoor cat is cruel?

[Catnope]

I was looking after my mother’s cat last week - feeding him while she was on holiday and changing the litter tray - and I felt so incredibly sorry for the cat. It’s not the first time I’ve looked after him for her, and not the first time I’ve thought that.

What a shit life for the cat.

Of course I don’t like the idea of cats killing wildlife out there, but to be a prisoner indoors 100% of the time your whole life?!

It’s cruel. Right?! Just me?

Of course I was nothing but lovely to my mother and took good care of the cat. My mother doesn’t let him out because she fears he’ll get stolen or run over. She lives on a quiet and safe street, so I don’t think anyone will want to steal him. At this point, I also think he wouldn’t have a clue how to kill a bird.

It’s not “nature” for cats to kill wildlife. They are domestic pets, they’re not native to any country and they are invasive. They’ve caused species to go extinct. And yes, some people do realise the damage they cause and do care. Other people, who don’t care about anything but themselves, don’t.

Why have a pet cat at all then? Surely it’s entirely selfish to have one indoor or out, if this is your pov? Therefore also the people who do “only care about themselves”.

It was said in that way specifically to provoke your predictable reaction, and to illustrate how unreasonable the outdoor car mentality is, not because I have ever wished harm on an animal, quite the opposite, I spend my time and money saving them.

Outdoor cat owners are the ones who put their cats at constant risk, not me. If someone’s cat is killed, it’s their own fault and certainly nothing to do with me 😊

Yes, my opinion is that if you can’t provide a suitable, safe, contained, supervised environment for your pet (ANY pet), then don’t have one. Exactly that, yes.

I’ve never kept cats, and never intend to.

@Dreamskies so you don't actually care about the birds in themselves ?

You’ve clearly missed the couple of posts where I point out I spend my time and money helping injured creatures then? No, i obviously don’t care about the birds at all 😂🙈

Outdoor cat owners are the ones who put their cats at constant risk, not me. If someone’s cat is killed, it’s their own fault and certainly nothing to do with me 😊

I agree with this within certain constraints. Your example of a dog escaping onto my property and killing my cat is absolutely the responsibility of the dog owner. Were my cat to go next door and be killed by their dog then that is down to me.
In the same way that if someone deliberately causes harm to other people's pets (cats, dogs, caged birds, reptiles, pet rodents, whatever) it's down to them.

Anyway - I'm delighted to report that in 40 years of outside access cat ownership none of mine have met an accidental death or (based on the cartoon upthread) caught fire, been taken away by raptors or foxes etc.

Yep, bad things happen in the world. A proportionate response to risk is what is called for. I’ve had up to 4 cats at a time for 40 years- I’ve never not had several free roaming cats- in that time I have had

1 hit by a car (he was fine, lived many happy years afterwards)
0 poisoned,
0 injured by other animals,
0 stolen,
0 lost,
0 injured by misadventure
0 contracted contagious disease
0 complaints about any cat

My experience tells me that the balance of probability is on my side.

I have a cat that I left with my mum after staying back home for a while. She's an outside cat, and brings little decapitated baby birds to me in the summer. It's horrible, but I care more about her having a good life

@Dreamskies
Yes, my opinion is that if you can’t provide a suitable, safe, contained, supervised environment for your pet (ANY pet), then don’t have one. Exactly that, yes.

So by your argument - your pets being killed by a cat is your fault because you failed to provide a safe environment for them?
You simply failed to cater for all risks.

I’ve had cats for 50yrs. Out of 8 cats only the current one catches and ears. None of the others ever caught or tried to catch anything. One even chose to stay in the garden and go no further.

Unless the cat is hairless I do think it’s cruel to keep them in. My neighbour has 3 moggies and they sit at the upstairs window watching the world go by. They would be scared to go out now but he did say they sometimes try and dart outside. I guess it’s their instinct to want to go out.

The dog on your property example was specifically to highlight how unreasonable it is that people allow their cats out onto other people’s properties where they can (and do) kill their pets. There’s not a justification for it, the same as no justification for the dog coming onto your property.

Can you give an example of an outdoor death you think wouldn’t be your fault? Other than it dying of an illness that wasn’t caught whilst outside? If your cat is outside and meets it’s demise (car, poisoning, dog (except on your own property), other wildlife etc) then it’s at risk due to you failing to supervise it.

So you think that I should never be able to open my windows or doors because your cat has more right to enjoy my property than I do? It’s your responsibility to ensure your pet is not a nuisance, not anyone else’s.

I think you can see how unreasonable that is.

The day you think it’s ok for other people’s dogs to be in and on your property, pissing, shitting, causing damage etc, is the day I’ll agree it’s ok for cats to do it.

I hope someone’s escaped dog comes into your property and kills your cat, let’s see how you react. I doubt you’ll be saying “oh well, it’s natural for dogs to kill cats, and it’s fine that your dog came into my property and killed my pet”. You are ridiculous.

For one thing my property is dog proof- I’m not saying it couldn’t happen- but it’s extremely unlikely.

More importantly the legislation covering the supervision and behaviour of dogs and cats in public is completely different- the situations are not meaningfully comparable.

No doubt when your cat is run over you’ll be the first to blame everyone and everything but yourself 🙄

No- in the extremely unlikely event one of my cats is run over I would accept that as a risk of allowing them to roam. Drivers are not supposed to swerve or do an emergency stop to avoid an animal that runs into the road, therefore if a cat does that you can expect they will be hit.

The dog on your property example was specifically to highlight how unreasonable it is that people allow their cats out onto other people’s properties where they can (and do) kill their pets.

Yes - but in the UK cats are allowed to roam - so while you may regard it as unreasonable the law doesn't.

You do realise that other birds, foxes, weasel, stoat, mink all kill birds?

We have contant birds of prey flying over our gardens and the fields behind.

If you are a small bird you are in danger all the time.

@Sounreasonable @Grumpyoldpersonwithcats

we’ve already covered legislation. Something being legal doesn’t make it right. Killing things, putting your pet at risk and causing nuisance to others because the law allows it? Weird.

I know. They're natures snacks. I just think it's weird people do care about them but eat them

I’ll say it a bit louder for those who aren’t listening:

WILDLIFE IS NATURE - CATS ARE NOT!

I work in central London and I pass a flat which has a cat bed by the window, occassionally the cat is in it. I can't imagine the cat can go out, i think it would be very stressful for cat and owner. it's adjacent to a really busy road, and the nearest green space is probably 1/4 mile away

I live in a commuter town, in a residential road, I'd hate for my cats not to be able to go out. They spend most of the summer outdoors, and most of the winter indoors (but they always go out to do their business)

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Were cats not allowed to free roaming in the UK I wouldn't keep them as I believe their quality of life would be (in many cases) significantly reduced by this restriction.
There are laws I might think are daft - however in a democracy I choose to live by them.

WILDLIFE IS NATURE - CATS ARE NOT!

What's your definition of wildlife? Because cats have been around for thousands of years, both domesticated and feral.

There may be more cats around nowadays due to the number of people who keep them as pets, but let's not pretend they're a brand new introduction to our ecosystem - they've been around in Europe for at least 3,000 years and in Asia/Africa for four times that amount 🤷‍♀️

I get that, and many people seem to ease their conscience in this way. All I ask is that you consider the many negative impacts your (and other people’s) cats have on your neighbours and on the ecosystem, plus the constant risk you’re putting your pet at each day. Maybe a different pet would be more appropriate next time 🙂

Haven't RTFT but here is an interesting idea. My sister's elderly indoor cats were overweight and diabetic. The vet suggested letting them out. Sis was cautious, fearing they would run off and get lost or knocked over by a car.

But she tried it and in their case, probably because of their age, it worked great. They had no inclination to roam, but instead just pottered around the garden for a few hours a day. It had a chest-high fence, so they could have got out if they wanted, but they didn't bother! It perked them right up. They lost weight and seemed MUCH healthier and happier.

You can think I’m weird for having a cat, I can think you’re weird for being so angry about birds- the variety of opinions and preferences in the world is one of the nicer things about it I think.

Pet cats are a domestic species. They’re not native in this country, nor in any other, as they’re not a wild animal. Even if they were a wild species, adding more of them is still not going to be ok, and would still throw the natural balance. But they aren’t, they’re invasive.

this has been covered by a few posters earlier on if you’re actually interested in finding out.