Free breakfast clubs for ALL primary school children? Why?

[Safi7]

I’ve been overseas since the election so a bit out of the loop, but is it true that Labour are going to make it standard that all primary schools must now offer free breakfasts to all children, regardless of need?

Fair enough for children from deprived families - but all children?

Where is the money for this coming from?

Are Labour actually saying that in 2024, its now to much to expect parents to actually bother to feed their own children breakfast? This responsibility can just be pushed onto schools instead - as if they haven’t got enough on? Teachers are leaving in droves as it is. Du much is out in them - the jobs is becoming more like social work in too many cases. Who will staff these breakfast clubs and make sure kids are actually eating?

Surely this is just encouraging lazy parenting - ie parents who can well afford cereal / toast / eggs etc it but just won’t bother if their kids can eat at school instead. Plus children will be dumped at school earlier than necessary, just because parents can now get away with it?

Surely it’s better to direct resources where they are actually needed, rather than turn schools into free cafes? Makes no sense.

@Whatabonkersworld I'd hazard a guess those who can afford to feed their kids breakfast wont be using it. I certainly cba to get up an hour+ earlier for the sake of some free toast.

Working parents may use it but I think that's reasonable and will probably be a big help for some working parents

It’s the quality of the food that bothers me and the waste. The free fruit that children receive is absolutely disgusting. Bags of pitiful mouldy satsumas . Revolting carrots of various sizes again going mouldy, bananas that never ripen. We’ve complained and complained.
I’m worried that the breakfasts will be the same.
Our school lunches are fantastic but the waste is shocking, really shocking. Good, well thought out , nutrition food thrown away because children want ‘crap’.
Staffing is also an issue. A huge issue actually, unsocial hours at minimum wage, we can’t recruit funnily enough.

You seem to be focused too much on the parents rather than the children. Some parents absolutely are lazy and cba to feed their kids properly but should that mean no one should step up to help those children who aren't being adequately cared for?

If the state want to try and equalise society a bit more then initiatives like this are actually the best way. It has a direct effect on learning and in some cases behaviour, I mean it’s unpleasant being hungry isn’t it. Also it will go directly to children. I studied poverty and educational outcomes many years ago.

As much as you talk about lazy parenting and the good folk of MN are up in arms there are children who are neglected compeltley. Through voluntary work I have met many people who live on the margins of society and a common theme was being raised in an abusive household. I do not share their stories as it could break a confidence. I’m not trying to downplay some of peoples upset at their childhoods but the level of cruelty some children have to live with is off the scale.

The point of the school day is for the child’s benefit for education and socialising - not so parents can work. The school
day is long enough ? Why do we want to move so far away from any time at home and push dc out early till late while we make ourselves ill working too much and then everyone’s health physical and mental suffers. Record numbers of MH issues in adults and huge numbers of burnt out children school refusing or not having SEN needs met. The food offered won’t be good quality it’ll be cheap cereal and toast . Long term this won’t help .

And what about parents who need to be at work at 8am? Should they just give up work and claim UC?

I would have thought it would be better to provide a much wider offer in secondaries, than even more in primaries.

things don’t magically get easier for a child or family when the child moves to secondary - in fact they generally get way harder. Universal FSM for Yr 7s at least would be so helpful, and IMO better than free primary breakfasts

Fucking annoying that you assume it's the parents fault their child doesn't attend school you do realise that once you can no longer carry them forcing them in becomes virtually impossible? There are many parents that struggle to get their child to school that are not supported by the school it's really not that hard to have sympathy for the situation

However I've just realised I'm talking to a person who begrudges children food so..

You spend your money on what you value. How awful of this Labour Government to value the holistic wellbeing of children. Monsters.

Excellent idea. Far better use of public money than pissing it up walls in Rwanda.

The assumption it is for or encourages lazy parents/parenting.

But you already knew that.

Those who haven’t dealt with this issue will never understand. They’ll say their dc would go if they told them having no concept what it’s like to beg a burnt out suffering child to go in and you can’t physically make them as 1) they are too big and 2) that’s not ok to manhandle someone. But some people know better and it wouldn’t happen to them . But like when I was told to starve my arfid dd as ‘she will eat when hungry enough’ no that didn’t work !

Breakfast and after school clubs aren’t that expensive I’m not sure why they’re putting the money there. Meanwhile my ‘free’ 15 nursery hours actually equate to 7 spread across the year and with the top up charge added. 4 days a week will still cost £850pcm.

I’m in favour of having breakfast clubs but think that there should be a small fee , payable in advance, for this. Anything that is deemed as “free” is always abused - or at least that has been my experience.

They’d be better off extending the free fruit and veg scheme for all school years currently ends at yr 3 I think? and offering a bigger fruit and veg snack mid morning- better for health than crappy cereal and white toast

I can’t see the issue, most schools have a breakfast club, if funding is provided for an extra staff member and a bit more food then great. Most parents I know work, even if wfh are likely to like the flexibility

children generally only want a bit of toast or cereal. When they go to breakfast club they are on time for school. Win win.

There's some pretty shit parents out their. It's better for the government to raise children as at least then their being looked after. I work in a supermarket so see what parents are spending their food vouchers on during the holidays. It's better to give children actual food then their parents extra benefits for food

I think your concern that people will use/abuse it who don’t need it is highly misplaced. I don’t need it, so I won’t send my kids. Why would I make them go to school an hour earlier to eat a less nutritious breakfast than I can give them at home? Equally my youngest is eligible for free school meals (KS1) and we don’t take them up on it, because our school meals are poorly cooked with low quality ingredients.

YABU because:

• Not every parent who is struggling is struggling enough for free school meals
• A slice of toast and a bowl of own-brand cereal costs almost nothing
• Sometimes, children come into school without breakfast because the morning at home was too chaotic, not because they couldn't afford it
• Parents who work often either can't afford wraparound care or are paying their entire hourly rate for that hour for current before-school clubs
• Children struggling with attendance often find that having a quieter period to ease into the school day helps- introducing a free breakfast club helped a lot at one primary school I worked at.

My sons secondary school offers free breakfast to all students…..toast, porridge, cereal the reasons are

1. stops there being stigma for those that are entitled to it as everyone gets it so no one knows who is on”free breakfast” due to home circumstance
2. it has also improved attendance - those who would normally be late and then decide not to come as they are late turn up for breakfast and are therefore in school on time when they previously wouldn’t have bothered
3. staff have said that focus / participation in periods 1 & 2 (before morning break) has improved.

the main reason they did it was for reason 1 but the other 2 are great positive effects of it as well.

Du much is out in them - the jobs is becoming more like social work in too many cases.

You clearly have no idea what social workers do if you think giving a child a piece of toast equates to becoming like social work. It’s like me reading with my child and declaring myself to be a teacher.

I think it’s about getting parents into work. My school doesn’t have a breakfast club and jobs that start at 9:30 - 2:30 are uniformly expecting you to slog your guts out for minimum wage. I’ve done these jobs housekeeper in hotel/ carehome etc but it’s hard going. I have a brain and a decent degree and have managed to get something wfh now kids are bit older. Free breakfast club would of been massively helpful. I’d of worked more/ paid more tax/ claimed less UC. I’m sure people will say you can organise your own childcare but there are no childminders and nanny is cost prohibitive. Pre children I earned 40k a year. Had twins and cost of childcare prohibitive so was a sahm. Then got divorced and had to find a job but childcare so awkward. I earned about 12k the first year. Five years down the line I’ve clawed my way back up to around £35k and back into professional work but not having childcare in the mornings has made that really hard.

It represents the next stage on the journey of a shift in thinking about the role of the government. Once upon a time the government at a national level existed for defence of the realm and of legislation on law and order, crime and punishment. The state was small and income tax averaged about 5% during the course of the 19th century, rising to about 30% at the end of WW1 and reducing to around 20% after the war. Families never would have expected the state to be involved in the care of their children, disabled people or the sick. During WW2 taxes rise again to somewhere approximating the level we have now. Afterwards, instead of reducing taxes back to 20%, the welfare state was created, with state pension and the NHS. Taxes were reduced, but not as low as they once had been. As society has got more complex, we have also seen a shift away from family responsibility towards state responsibility. It was no longer acceptable for a child to slip through the net because of their parents. Hence, social services, free school meals and so forth. The natural next step is that the state is even more involves. It provides a cradle to grave service of childcare during the working day for you as a child and your children as a working adult. Whether this is a good thing in the long run is a political or philosophical issue. It certainly reshapes society, for better and worse, in ways that are not always apparent at the outset. On a purely practical level, given that our country is currently saddled with unthinkable levels of debt that is expensive to administer, and given that the population is also struggling with the cost of living, I would be wary about introducing any new freebies at this stage in a new parliament.

We open at 8.40 and have bagels every morning. These are provided by a charity. Some children take them and some don't. We also sit and have a bagel or other form of breakfast with the children. As we have a school garden this is sometimes supplemented by fresh fruit and vegetables.

Op do you really not see the bigger picture (which this great list gives). And to add that the early start is about providing the space for parents to work, not just to get to work on time.

I’m sure many people think “oh I couldn’t work because then I’d spend my income on before/after school clubs” or “I can’t start that early because of school so I can’t apply”. It gives people fewer excuses to not work whilst also supporting the points in the list above.

No, it doesn’t address the root cause of poverty but it does provide one way to stimulate the economy by making it easier for people to work (which may contribute to reducing poverty).