Free breakfast clubs for ALL primary school children? Why?

[Safi7]

I’ve been overseas since the election so a bit out of the loop, but is it true that Labour are going to make it standard that all primary schools must now offer free breakfasts to all children, regardless of need?

Fair enough for children from deprived families - but all children?

Where is the money for this coming from?

Are Labour actually saying that in 2024, its now to much to expect parents to actually bother to feed their own children breakfast? This responsibility can just be pushed onto schools instead - as if they haven’t got enough on? Teachers are leaving in droves as it is. Du much is out in them - the jobs is becoming more like social work in too many cases. Who will staff these breakfast clubs and make sure kids are actually eating?

Surely this is just encouraging lazy parenting - ie parents who can well afford cereal / toast / eggs etc it but just won’t bother if their kids can eat at school instead. Plus children will be dumped at school earlier than necessary, just because parents can now get away with it?

Surely it’s better to direct resources where they are actually needed, rather than turn schools into free cafes? Makes no sense.

I don't agree with free breakfast club. People on benefits are eligible for fsm. They get vouchers fir the holidays.
I grew up on benefits in a 1 parent family. We were skint always had breakfast. For a some it's a matter of priorities.

I can't find it but some years ago I read a report that indicates the absence of school meals (including breakfast) is associated with some children's regression in reading age over the lengthy Summer school holiday in the UK. iirc, where the meals were maintained, the children kept up their reading age and didn't start the Autumn term at a disadvantage and playing catch-up.

I'll post the link if my bookmark app starts working again.

Free breakfast clubs would actually be a relatively cheap, quick ‘win’ in the very big project to reduce inequality and child poverty.

Means testing it would probably be more expensive than universal provision.

And, honestly, why do you object? It won’t be a loss for you, personally.

How do you know those people were parents? Did you ask them? And aren’t Job Centres closed on Sundays?

I posted this upthread but no answer so far and it seems relevant to your post:
For those that are saying it's so awful that children might be out of the house for slightly longer. And that families should stop farming out childcare.
How do you propose to re-organise the British economy so that one parent can afford to stay home to look after their children? Please offer your well thought through arguments on this.

(As an aside, both my DC started nusery around 10 months old because DP and I work. Both my DC are toilet trained, can dress themselves and are meeting all their milestones. Older DC is thriving at school. No behavioural issues. Do not place wider societal issues at the door of working mums, it's incredibly demeaning).

No but it'd a picture of neglect. It's terrible neglect to not feed your children and this just enables feckless families to do one less thing.

You can't out all the kids in care but removing monetry benefits and replacing with voucher schemes for families so money can only go on healthy whole foods, child in need plans for kids not being fed properly. Strict rules on how long you can be on benefits.

Encouragement back into adult education to improve job prospects.

what about the children of the people manning breakfast club?

Maybe they don’t have children or their children are adults or they’re in the breakfast club their parents staff.

So, let's scupper the chances of children with parents who can't take responsibility......because that it how a progressive society gets results, eh?

There is a reason why some families are caught in the loop of poor outcomes. It's because it's incredibly difficult to break the cycle without help.

A society grows exponentially when it provides opportunities for all it's citizens to develop and make the most of their potential. Most children learn from good role models and being given the opportunity to thrive. Children should not be punished for the the decisions or circumstances of their parents.

What about the child whose parent has mental health issues and just about keeps it together to earn a wage, but not much else?

What about the child whose parent is running between 2 jobs to get the bills paid?

What about the child whose parent is a functioning alcoholic, but doesn't prioritise their needs?

What about the child with a parent whose partner has left them with the children and they are trying to keep all plates spinning?

What about the family who have caring responsibilities first thing in the morning?

What about the family whose child can face the immediate start to school, so they avoid breakfast hoping it will slow the day down?

I'm so glad you've got it all together! In my job, we regularly feed children who haven't had breakfast, for a wide range of reasons. Not all of them are from families where the parents don't work. There are a large number of families in this country who are just trying to keep their heads above water, with problems you can only imagine. They are no feckless and they are not avoiding responsibility. Some of those children are ones that would benefit from breakfast provision for a whole range of reasons.

I hope your children break the cycle and grow up with more compassion than you.

I’m confused why you think ensuring every single child in this country gets a decent breakfast is a bad thing. The motivation behind it is irrelevant. They’re getting fed the most important meal of the day.

Every schoolchild in my state gets a free breakfast and lunch, regardless of need. They introduced this during Covid, which really highlighted the number of kids living with food insecurity. I too questioned why this was a universal thing rather than targeted, but apparently the cost of means-testing would outweigh the benefits.

Some staggering (middle class) ignorance on this thread.

Heaven forbid children should be fed toast and cereal for breakfast. Countless kids at my school turn up hungry on a daily basis. Some turn up with small handfuls of Pringles or rice crispie marshmallow bars. A few miles away from eggs, avocado and hand-knitted wholegrain granola.

Hungry kids can't focus and can't learn. Some kids take a long time to settle in the morning. Anything that mitigates these things is a bonus.

And attachment?! Give me a break. If you want to know the biggest threat to secure attachment (not to mention communication, language and social skills) it's parents being glued to their phones rather than interacting with their children. And that is an issue even for the avocado brigade.

I don't know how this will be staffed. Teachers are busy prepping for the day at this time- I get to school at 7am and and flat out until the children arrive at 8.45am. For minimum wage, a couple of hours' work in the mornings is hardly attractive to recruit new staff. Badly thought through.

They probably have large, flat screen TVs and dine exclusively on foie gras and caviar from the local food bank too, don’t they?

Even if this was all true, what are they actually taking away from you? And what gives you the right to make nasty pronouncements on other people’s decisions to have children?

They have had this in Wales for a long time (Labour run Senedd with education devolved). The school seemed to struggle to afford it and introduced an additional charge for ‘childcare’ even though the breakfast part was free. It was still extremely cheap and we used it on days we were working (I think it was £1 or £2). There were still limited places available and a waiting list.

It was run by the lunchtime supervisors rather than teachers.

No, because you can't suddenly increase teachers' working hours.

A lot of secondaries try to keep lunch breaks and breaks shorter now because behaviour is so bad.

Limited supervision availability, frankly, there's no money or people available to do it at all times, and if they have too much free time on their hands, frankly, too many of them behave too badly.

I blame the parents. They don't actually parent them or support the schools or require their children to behave, they just complain when their are consequences for their children's poor choices. So the result is, of course, that schools can't 'afford' the children to be at loose ends for longer periods of time as it all too frequently ends in tears (fighting, bullying, vaping, on their phones, etc)

Two of the kids primary schools offered free breakfast club, I believe both offered bagels and were paid for by Magic Breakfast if I remember rightly. I dont think they cost the school anything. Two things we learnt quickly

1. They always cooked extra or toasted any leftovers they had defrosted for breaktime because kids could help themselves they never went hungry. Some of them just liked knowing they could eat it without judgement, others saw it as I wasn't hungry at breakfast time but I am now and I dont want to eat the only "break snack" allowed which was fruit. They were popular with staff who hadn't had time to eat breakfast themselves because they were rushing to get their own children to school/childcare.

1. My own kids could have cared less about breakfast club at Primary School but the Secondary one allows them to have a safe space to be at school and avoid the bullies. Because the breakfast club was running they were allowed inside the school earlier rather than being forced to wait on the playground. The very nice member of staff who ran it was also happy for them to listen to music and audiobooks on their phones in the corner, but they were banned outside. Being allowed to go inside school 15 minutes early allowed meant they rushed less, were less anxious and they liked socialising with their friends (the school separates them by year group outside but breakfast club is open to anyone).

We don't struggle with feeding them, but the youngest never bothers to eat at home, she is too easily distracted by other things, the middle ones friends always prompt her to eat at breakfast club though and he is always happy to eat. I would happily provide them with their own food to take for them and their friends because it's the same of breakfast club they need not the food.

I think you’ll find much of the ignorance has nothing to do with which class they’re in. I’m Middle class and wholly support this, as does every middle class friend I know off. Unless it’s compulsory, MC families who don’t need this resource won;t be using it anyway, so everyone getting up in arms about it being available to those who can afford to feed their kids should relax. Like I say, above, I think it’s in part about ensure kids who need the additional social support and first meal of the day get it, but it will also be to to support working parents return to/maintain work.

Everyone benefits from this policy.

My concern is that it will go tits up just like nursery place funding is. The Government aren't paying what it costs so nurserys are closing and it's hard to get a place. Families are also having to pay extra costs in order to use their child's place. I don't blame the nurseries trying to cover their actual costs, but it has to be properly funded to be successful.

I hope it doesn't negatively affect our (excellent) primary school wraparound cover. Which is 7:30am to 5:30pm. I worry if it's underfunded, they'll shorten the time and start at 8am which would be really tricky for me as I start work at 8am (in another school ironically). They have already shorted then end time from 5:45 to 5:30pm.

Means testing whether children can get some free toast and a bit of cereal would be expensive. You could give it just to those who get fsm, but that leaves out children whose parents are really struggling and would benefit from a bit of free food.
Providing a bit of free cheap food is really not that expensive. And I think it is unlikely those doing well financially would take it up.

Sounds good to me. It costs money to means test so there probably isn't extra expense in offering it free to all. I'm a sahm and financially don't need it (and I expect very few families need it in my dd's school, house prices are high). But it would be useful to get the dc out of the house earlier, and to let the school deal with their breakfast fussiness. It might be nice for them socially too. But I'm a bit concerned the food on offer might not appeal to my dcs, I often cook them egg with toast or slow cooker porridge and I doubt the budget will stretch to that.

@WhatsMyEmail breakfast club is different to wrap around care. It is usually offered at the earliest half an hour before normal opening time, sometimes only 15 minutes before.

I agree 100 per cent. The focus should be on quality family time - healthy breakfast around a family table with discussion and time to be thankful for the meal. We as a society are sadly so far removed from any of this - and will get further and further away from this.
stuffing kids in school earlier and earlier for some cheap white bread is not the solution.

If the logistics work I think it could be a good thing. But there is a big ‘if’ there re funding, staffing and capacity.

At the moment I don’t tend to use our morning care as it starts af 7.45 and doesn’t actually offer breakfast which isn’t that appealing to be honest as it means very early starts. I would however make use of it if it was drop off from 8 and offered food. I do however think people would use it as ours solely to avoid rush hour car park. More of a staggered start time would ease congestion and likely make drop-off less stessy for everyone.

I’m not in the UK and we have free meals up to age 18. And free breakfast for those who want up age 14/15. They are really nice too, and a huge fresh salad bar.