Travelling with Covid

[PatricksMother]

I am currently on holiday with friends. We have been away for nearly two weeks and we're due to go home on Friday.

I started feeling a bit unwell last night and this evening tested positive for covid. I wouldn't normally test, but one of my companions is still very nervous about catching covid and insisted I tested. I am now self-isolating in my room at her insistence.

On Friday we will be catching a ferry home and it's likely to be very busy due to the time of year. I will then leave my friends and catch a (pre-booked) train home.

My covid-nervous friend is appalled that I intend to travel and thinks I should find a hotel room somewhere and self-isolate until I get a negative result.

The house we are staying in is booked for someone else from Friday.

Even if I was able to find a hotel with a vacant room, I would struggle to afford it and may have to pay again for the ferry and train. I am also due to return to work on Saturday and my employer will expect me to work if I am well enough. They would not be impressed if I told them I was still away.

I haven't had covid since 2021 and I thought people weren't testing or self-isolating any more. I feel a bit under the weather, but not too ill to function normally.

So am I being unreasonable to travel on Friday, or is my friend right to be appalled?

As early as 3 February 2020 – long before anyone outside the Department of Health was taking the prospect of a pandemic seriously – ministers were told the masks make no significant difference. In April 2020, the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag) reiterated this advice. At the end of that month, the Sage committee said much the same thing, telling ministers that it would be unreasonable to claim a large benefit.

Surely that was much too early to tell if they were useful or not @JohnPrescottspyjamas?
The study results came later and showed them to be effective.

https://egc.yale.edu/largest-study-masks-and-covid-19-demonstrates-their-effectiveness-real-world

If you feel you have no alternative but to travel (unfortunately), please wear a mask - indeed, try double-masking & try to keep at a distance from others while you are a danger to the vulnerable.

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas
I mean, people didn't realise it was airborne at first. WHO said it wasn't - a mistake. It wasn't until June 21 they admitted there was a 'possibility 'of 'short-range' aerosol transfer.

That's why the guidance was wrong at first.

So, no, mask wearers weren't and aren't paranoid, simply informed.

I think she should have stayed in her room, personally, or gone home early. I also think that as no one is testing for Covid now, rightly or wrongly, the whole ferry will probably be crawling with it as will all public spaces. Either everyone tests and self isolates or no one does (unless they are vulnerable). So I am afraid she'll just have to keep her distance.

(I do think you should wear a mask and stay away from others so far as possible whilst travelling.)

Yeah, odds are there will be covid present on both the ferry and the train even if OP doesn't board either. I just assume now that in any crowded place or busy public transport setting, there will be covid.

Not all rules are mandatory. They are a guide for conduct.

Including the Covid paranoid friend ofOps, who spent time in close proximity to her before she got ill...

Unless she has also tested, just to be safe?

Do you know the health status of everyone who will be on your ferry and train?

Bless you! Of course not. Unfortunately, no on in our group is wealthy enough to charter a private ferry or train, so how could we possibly know that? 😁

I am aware of the guidance for both France and the UK (both pretty much the same) and the options available to us to mitigate the risk of passing on covid. We don't need to know the health status of strangers to do the best we can to avoid infecting people.

Presumably, people who are vulnerable know who they are and will be aware that on a crowded ferry or train they are likely to encounter at least a few people with covid. I would expect them to take their own precautions too.

A guide for conduct is not rules. It's a guide. Rules are not guidelines. If you don't believe me, check a dictionary.

Rules tell you what you must do, guidelines tell you what you should do.

The mandatory rules were laid down in the time-limited Coronavirus Act 2000 (in the UK) and the Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (Covid-19) Act 2020 (in Ireland).

Both of these Acts have now expired and have been replaced by non-mandatory guidance, some of which was previously mandatory rules under the Acts.

It is now clear to me that you don't understand the difference between rules and guidelines. That explains why we keep going round in circles...

Absolutely agree.

Before Covid, did all those now so touchingly concerned about others safety, wear masks to protect the immunosuppressed or those undergoing chemo? Did they worry about the fact the cold they had might have been a death sentence to anyone in the aforementioned group. No they didn’t, because it didn’t impact them but hey, here comes Covid. I might catch it myself and die!

TBH, if masks really worked, countries in Asia that have had a culture of wearing them for decades would have fared a lot better - but ultimately, figures were pretty similar across the board. The only reason face coverings were ‘suddenly’ effective was governments realised they had scared their populations shitless and the only way they could restore confidence and encourage people out of their homes and to prevent economies completely tanking was to give them a form of ‘safety blanket’ The public bizarrely felt less vulnerable with a piece of material stretched across their noses.

Think about it, why on earth was it ok to sit down and eat food in a public area that was open to all sorts of airborne microbes, but to stand up was somehow ‘risky’?

Not all rules are law

There are rules in swimming pools, beauticians, school, work places, games, sports even my house !

You don't get arrested if you don't follow them.

You're annoying me now

OP, stop getting hung up on whether guidelines are mandatory or not. Protecting vulnerable people shouldn’t be about rules or guidelines. It’s simply common courtesy. Just wear a mask when you’re travelling home and sit near an open window if you can. You’re overthinking this.

Here's something to help you understand how masks help. The vulnerable are likely to be wearing them, the infectious should also be to keep everyone safer.

And yes, if I knew I had something infectious that messes with the immune system, can cause long term disability or death and the risk increases with every infection I'd do everything I could to not catch it myself and if I did get it I'd try very hard not to pass it on. That's not a new thing for me and it saddens me that that's become something that people ridicule.

I really don't understand why it matters whether there is guidance, rules, or anything else in place. If you have Covid, then it's only basic decency to wear a mask if you're in a closed environment like a train. It's not exactly difficult or expensive to wear one. Why would anyone be so selfish as to not try to reduce the spread of infection from Covid, flu, or anything else contagious?

I wouldn't have worn a mask while travelling if I had flu or a virus or even a bad cold before covid, because I didn't know how easy it is to get hold of FFP2 or FFP3 masks. I do now. They might not be perfect as not professionally fitted but they'd certainly reduce the amount of virus I breathe out. I'd wear one on the plane on my way out too - look how often people talk about having caught covid on the plane out when going on holiday. Why would I pay thousands for flights and a holiday and then not do all I could to avoid catching a virus on the outward flight, when for under a tenner I could get a few FFP2/3 masks and use them? Having a couple with me on holiday would also mean I'd be OK if I was ill on the way back or if one of my friends/family was. They're a really easy middle ground between total isolation and just breathing over everyone.

As for the beginning of the pandemic - I think they always knew cloth masks wouldn't do much but they didn't have enough of the good kind to have members of the public using them, so they made out the cloth masks did something. They would have done better to be honest and say that those masks wouldn't do anything much from the start, even if it meant admitting the general public would be unprotected. At least then you wouldn't get people going round saying 'masks don't work' when they mean 'cloth masks and flimsy surgical masks don't work'.

The punishment for breaching rules doesn't have to be arrest! 🤣 But breaching rules will usually attract some kind of punishment or sanction. To use your examples:

If you don't follow the rules in the swimming pool you will get chucked out or banned.

If you don't follow school rules you risk detention/suspension/expulsion.

Breaching policy/procedure in most workplaces is gross misconduct so you risk disciplinary action or the sack.

If you don't follow the rules in games or sports you are likely to get sent off (football and other field sports), thrown off the team, or suddenly find you are no longer invited to play.

I have no idea what sanctions would be imposed for breaching the beautician's rules, (because I am naturally beautiful 😋), but I suspect it would be something along the lines of being given slug eyebrows or terminal hairy legs.

Rejection of guidelines would not be punished with any of the punishments listed above.

If you are feeling annoyed, just imagine how I'm feeling. I must have the patience of Job and I've got covid! 😱

I am well aware of how I can mitigate risk to others, thank you and I'll do my best.

I'm just having a bit of bants with another poster, because I'm bored and I've got covid. You don't have to join in if you don't want to, but you are welcome if you do.

If your friend is that concerned about catching viruses what the hell is she doing sat inside an aluminium tube that has recycled air for hours on end? She is being ridiculous.

Please do wear a mask and take precautions.

My mum has acute myeloid leukaemia and her platelets are on the floor. She can't catch any bugs at all, from a cold to Covid. Other people are also vulnerable.

It's a ferry and a train (and probably a taxi at the other end), so that's a very good question.

Also, she works in a busy London bookshop, so has a constant stream of snot-laden people passing her all day every day.

She has only had covid once, so I'm assuming she has a high level of immunity.

@LlynTegid we are expected in work unless physically unable to do so.
Have been since the government no longer said it was against the rules.
Lots of people off with it at the minute. Very few people testing and no compulsory mask wearing.
Couple of people who are at risk still wear visors/ masks, but the onus is on them to protect themselves.

I understand your need to get home but for goodness wear the blimmin mask all of the time on your journey,

You sound very unbothered about the welfare of other people.

Sorry should have read that better. If she is working in a bookshop serving customers i wouldn't be pandering to her.

Really? How do you reach that conclusion?

I have said I will do everything I can to mitigate the risk to others short of not travelling, which in my opinion (and that of 80% of people polled) is not unreasonable.

To be fair, some of your earlier comments were somewhat misleading.
When asked if you intended wearing a mask you said you'd bring one with you. You said whether you'd wear it or not depended on if you could avoid being in close proximity to others.That’s a slightly unusual reply given the nature of your trip. If your intention is to do everything you can to mitigate risk it is certain you wlll need to wear a mask for quite a bit of your journey.

Also, all the to-ing and fro-ing with pp regarding masks not being compulsory etc may have misled.