Labour should invest in weight loss medications immediately

[HowToSaveTheNHS]

AIBU to think the Labour government should seriously consider rolling out weight loss drugs to the obese population, to tackle obesity, diabetes and cut NHS waiting lists? Traditional public health measures to tackle obesity are not working.

We spend so much money treating disease associated with obesity and it’s only going to get worse as increasing numbers of people are living for decades with multiple health conditions associated with obesity. Even dementia’s leading cause is Type 2 diabetes.

Looking at the Mounjaro thread on here, huge numbers of Mumsnetters are successfully losing weight and improving their health. But people on lower incomes won’t have access because the drugs are expensive.

A course of drugs for a year will surely be money well spent if we can reduce heart disease/ diabetes/ dementia/ cancer etc… even hypertension.

If someone engages in a combat sport are their injuries self inflicted? Should the NHS refuse to treat them? What if a woman wearing high heels drinks a bit too much on a night out and breaks her ankle - surely that is self inflicted? Nobody made her drink or wear heels. Perhaps we should stop treating skin cancer in anyone who has ever sunbathed? No HIV treatment for anyone who had unsafe sex?
No treatment for infected piercings or tattoos as they are purely based on vanity. Same for any cosmetic procedures that go wrong.

You have to treat based on need or you find yourself in a moral minefield of subjective value judgements.

Why is it that addiction, injuries due to drunkenness or risky behaviour are seen as worthy of help but obesity regarded a moral failing? Subjective judgement and moral smugness?

No, it’s a waste of money which cannot be spared. Where does personal responsibility come into play?

Yes, I can only assume they want obese people to suffer. Moral judgement is only reserved for those struggling with obesity not all the other self inflicted medical issues.

It does make you wonder if it’s actually about their own self worth and superiority in managing to stay slim while those around them get fatter because they’re lazy/greedy/have no self control.

No one becomes obese in a one off accident or drunken incident. It takes sustained time and effort with multiple opportunities to stop.

It's not superior to be a healthy (ish) weight and not want to fund weight loss drugs.

Do mean any NHS treatment or just the weight loss injections?

My story, which I know is shared by many people shows that it’s really not that straightfoward.

What are those? Vast arrays of poor health and disease is contributed to by lifestyle. There are many things you could do to prevent disease- everything from eating healthier, not smoking, exercising more, working in a less stressful job, not drinking, not going overseas, not going out in the sun, not driving a car, etc. where does it end?

its “hard but possible” to avoid many diseases. But ultimately one in three people in the uk are obese. This causes all sorts of expensive health problems. Instead of shaming them, we should treat them.

It’s nuts isn’t it. Yet the majority of people in the uk are overweight and it becomes more and more common as you get older. I was a size 10 until menopause. Many other women go the same way. I bet some of these fat shakers will change their tune in a few years

I had to stop reading this thread after page 3 or so because the level of moral judgement and vitriol displayed towards obese people is ridiculous. And no, I myself am not obese, nor have I ever been so I don’t have personal skin in the game here.

I hope everyone on this thread that is preaching personal responsibility and saying things like “why should our taxes have to pay for people who choose to become obese” is also campaigning for the nhs to stop paying for treatment of lung cancer (since 85% of the time it’s due to smoking - literally self inflicted) or cirrhosis of the liver (mostly due to over consumption of alcohol….again, self inflicted).

Why is supporting people with obesity any different to either of these?

Because the vast majority of diseases and illnesses could be said to be self inflicted by lifestyle. Because treating the obesity epidemic will save money on treating all the diseases obesity causes. because it’s not so simple as saying obesity is simply greedy fatties choosing to eat too much. If it was the injectables wouldn’t work so well.

What about Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy seen in sports people including boxers, rugby players, American footballers etc. That doesn’t usually happen because of a one off injury but because of sustained and repeated trauma. Should we refuse to treat them?

Should we refuse to treat skin cancer in anyone who used a sunbed more than a certain number of times?

What about anyone who gets a repetitive strain injury from a hobby?

These all involve “sustained time and effort with multiple opportunities to stop”.

It would be interesting to be able to see the lifestyles and choices made by those full of judgement on this thread. Let's look at what everybody costs vs contributes since some want to decide who does or does not have a right to nhs treatment.
And if you want to talk about taxes there are services I have never and will never use but I contribute willingly because that is how society functions. I don't get to decide who does or doesn't get part of the money I pay.
Subjective moral judgements have no place in medical care.

It's weird how much moral judgement there is for obesity yet when I was anorexic I used to get compliments and praise and the kind of behaviours I had when anorexic are often lauded on Mumsnet.
Yet both overeating and undereating can come from mental health issues.

It's also a weird cognitive dissonance we have as a nation where we know there are lots of medications that cause weight gain but we just won't acknowledge it because we would rather be pious.

I saw a specialist because steroids caused massive dramatic weight gain for me (among other awful side effects) and they never doubted it had been caused by be steroids and assured it would come off when I stopped them - and it did come off rapidly. I have been baffled by all the compliments I have had about my "success" in losing weight when it was purely from stopping taking the medication that made me gain it. I am not a better person now I am thin again, and I actually eat more than I did when I was on steroids. My body just really responded dramatically to them.

But noone wants to think about mental health or medication as causes because it's far more fun to sit in smug judgement

Similarly people with back pain from poor posture.
Or eye strain from screen use.
or brittle bones from under eating.

I think, to my shame, I was a bit smug and judgy before steroids made me temporarily pile on the pounds. It was a sobering lesson and one I wouldn't wish on anyone.

Merely taking a medication designed to save my life gave my side effects that meant men felt it ok to yell "fat cunt" at me in the street and women felt they could give me unprompted lifestyle advice.

The steroids got stopped (thank fuck) and now I am on medication that instead makes my hair fall out. Weirdly I don't get abuse and judgement now the medication makes me bald instead of fat.

Taking morality out of it, I wonder how long you have to take these drugs for for them to work and not regain weight? Is it the rest of your life? Or at some other point?

On matters being self inflicted, the reality is that you won’t get very excellent help with addiction on alcohol, smoking, drugs in the NHS. You may be given some drugs and referred on to a support group. The NHS isn’t that well set up for addiction and so a lot is private. Obesity as food addiction or disordered eating is the same. There is some great help out there. You have to pay. The NHS model is still about patching up and sending you out.

I can only speak for myself, but I feel guilty using up tax payers money on a problem that I Have caused myself. I have joint problems which are possibly exacerbated by weight, and I am waiting until my BMI is below 23 before self referring to physio as I feel guilty taking up space on a waiting list that someone more deserving could use. As far as the injections go, once again, I got myself into this state, therefore I don't deserve to have things made easier.
Also,I worry that if it is too easy for me then I may be tempted to not keep the weight off, whereas if I know that I have suffered to lose the weight I will be more determined to keep if off.
I know that some might say that this is not a healthy attitude towards dieting, but I find that "positive self talk"doesn't work for me, whereas I can use my negative welf image almost as a tool for weight loss. Your milage may vary however, and I would not recommend this to others,just for myself.

Better work life balance so people can scratch cook better food.

Theoretically yes. However if we all keep an eye on our health and weight we can stop that in its tracks well before we’ve put on nearly 4stone.

Yes, you'd notice a pound a week after a month and stop eating 500kcal a day too much at that point.

Yes, but even under the current system, you will get help from the NHS for the results of those addictions - like lung cancer treatment, liver cirrhosis treatment, or emergency treatment for drug overdoses. So treating obesity which (in some cases) is the result of food addiction, is arguably the same.

I'm on mounjaro. I've tried my whole life to lose weight and I have done many times successfully. I know what I should eat to be healthy and I can cook. However my "food noise" is extreme and particularly now I'm older, my body will not allow me to lose weight and keep it off. Say what you like but it's the absolute truth. I've medical conditions and medications that exacerbate this. I've also got lipodema. My diet now consists of three smaller healthy meals per day with no snacks and I've mounjaro to thank for helping me silence my food noise, help me feel fuller and make healthy choices. Yes some people are using it to eat the same old rubbish but less of it and they will likely be the ones who do not change their ways and regain the weight.

Mounjaro has changed my life already in just one month. My lipodema is improving, my debilitating migraines have literally gone, my depression and anxiety are significantly better, my back and joint pain is improving and I've lost a moderate amount of weight which for me is a lot as I would lose a pound and gain 5! I was also pre diabetic and on track for a heart attack. So the NHS will be saving just on the meds they won't have to give me now!

As per my user name I feel this is my last and only chance to make a change to my health. I am fortunate I can just about scrape the money together and it's worth every penny, but I feel for those who have been denied this on the NHS (like I was) but can't afford it.

So to the clearly ignorant people I say this. Don't judge until you've been there. Eat less move more is not working for some people and when you've had the mental effects of trying your hardest, eating well and exercising but gaining weight, then you can comment. Some of you will find exactly this when you reach menopause so look forward to it my loves because you will hopefully remember how unkind and judgemental you were on this thread.

I think something like the British equivalent of the Japanese Metabo Law could work and there are existing data from Japan to analyse the impact.
It’s clear that people expect the government to sort their eating habits for them so it is a top-down, functioning solution that doesn’t completely remove personal agency.

Someone on Mumsnet mentioned Secret Eaters on another thread and I watched a couple of episodes on Youtube. It’s quite eye opening for someone who doesn’t live in the UK what people consider healthy, good eating habits, reasonable portions and how far the definition of a vegetable can stretch. I don’t think injections can sort these attitudes, long or short term.