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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To reduce hours when labour win election

877 replies

Parttimeplay · 24/05/2024 01:40

I fall into the “60%” tax bracket. With the upcoming elections and knowing the government always hammer the middle ground….woudlnt it make more sense for me to cut my hours for a more relaxed life, eligibility for childcare, reduced tax?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
BIossomtoes · 24/05/2024 12:00

Lazytiger · 24/05/2024 11:53

It’s the same party. “Call me Tony” and his “New” Labour policies were just continued by his successor David Cameron, you can see borrowing was already going up once Brown sold all the gold! Candidates from one party never defected to the other as they were historically polar opposites. Not the case now as they are basically the same high tax grabbers who will always defend their donors interests before those of the people they are elected to represent.

Of course it’s not the same party. We’d still have decent public services if it was.

Tories’ USP is supposed to be low taxes yet here we are - highest taxes for 70 years.

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 24/05/2024 12:03

BIossomtoes · 24/05/2024 12:00

Of course it’s not the same party. We’d still have decent public services if it was.

Tories’ USP is supposed to be low taxes yet here we are - highest taxes for 70 years.

Yes but it all happens in the context of the global world doesn’t it? Countries under left wing governments and right wing governments are experiencing the same.

Nobody is doing well.

Peaceandquietandacuppa · 24/05/2024 12:03

HumanRightsAreHumanRights · 24/05/2024 02:39

I would.

Not a fan of the Tories either, but how bad they have become has sort of crept up on my awareness, like being a frog in a pot slowly coming to the boil.
Now I've realised I should already have left this shithole long ago.

The election just finally gave me the wake up call I needed.

Where are you going?

Motheroffourdragons · 24/05/2024 12:04

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Lazytiger · 24/05/2024 12:09

horseyhorsey17 · 24/05/2024 11:43

What has any of this got to do with Labour? There won't be more private school kids taking up grammar school places than there are now. It goes on whether you pass the exam - and the fact that more private school kids may be coached for it doesn't mean fewer local kids will fail - and then on catchment to the school. All those sharp-elbowed private school parents would have to sell their five bedroom country pads and buy houses in the centre of a rather shit town to be guaranteed to be in catchment. Both my kids (went to a state primary, not coached, we live a mile or so from the grammar schools) passed. The majority of kids from their school went to ordinary state primaries and wouldn't have gone to private school either.

Private school fees round here are upwards of £20K a year so not accessible to the vast majority of parents in this particular area.

Just more scaremongering, innit.

Have a look at destinations for children at Richard Pate (prep in Cheltenham). 49% go onto the local grammars, other to very selective private schools. Are you saying these children were all super smart and would have got into a grammar from a state school with no tutoring (which is the rule not the exception Gloucestershire)?
Your area may not have many private preps or tutors… yet… but trust me, if your grammars are any good (and not all generate better results than a good comprehensives) then expect an influx of middle class parents and their tutored off-spring anyway. You may even get a wave of parents from Hong Kong or India as they value education even more highly then the middle class Brits.
Parents will go to great lengths to do their best for their children. Moving for a great education - even to to a new area for 5-10 years - already happens.

wombat15 · 24/05/2024 12:11

80smonster · 24/05/2024 11:35

I'm afraid it is all true, you are missing the point, bright local kids who have parents who have coached them may still make the grade, it will be those who have not be coached (who are significantly more likely to be from deprived backgrounds), who will not. That will create a less equal society whether you choose to believe it or not.

Overall the school places will be taken from somewhere and that will see two outcomes: 1) higher competition for grammar school places (most have large catchments), 2) near outstanding and high performing secondary schools will see house prices rise, as those with wealth will buy there way out of the current issue, again locking out poorer parents and therefore the children who are more deserving of those places.

There is no current evidence or research that underpins that academic results would rise with all this at play, there is evidence (and a few case studies too), that say this experiment saw children from wealthy and educated backgrounds being skimmed off at these schools, again removing this opportunity from someone more deserving in the class.

Edited

I think you are missing the point that not all grammar schools and entrance exams are the same. They want the brightest children rather than ones that have been extensively coached and the 11+ questions reflects that. The bright children from deprived backgrounds also can still receive some free coaching to level the playing field. In my area, it is provided by the grammar schools themselves. They also lower the entrance mark a bit for a certain proportion.

Regarding other children, I doubt that competition for grammar schools will suddenly be much higher given not all privately educated will decide to go to grammars instead and the population of 11 year olds is dropping. I can't see it having an immediate impact on house prices either. The best state schools are usually good because of the parents of the children that go there.

BIossomtoes · 24/05/2024 12:14

They want the brightest children rather than ones that have been extensively coached and the 11+ questions reflects that.

That’s good to hear. Ideally the exams should be formulated in such a way that no amount of coaching could impact on the result.

Whenwillitgetwarm · 24/05/2024 12:15

This was a party political broadcast brought to you by the Conservative Party.

pikkumyy77 · 24/05/2024 12:16

HeraSyndulla · 24/05/2024 11:16

IF Labour win, then you'll see taxation go through the roof. It always does under their political regime. It's where they run to, and where they exist.

This is just such a childish statement.

A government—any government—must tax to spend. Its got to spend either for the general welfare (infrastructure, education, health, defense) or for corrupt reasons (crony capitalism, bribes to self, gifts to oligarchs, transfer payments from workers to elites).

If a government chooses to tax labour by taxing work and income from work rather than taxing wealth (stocks, bonds, value of sales) the practical result is a transfer if wealth from the workers to the elites as elites can generally get around the rules or “only take a small salary as taxable income” while benefiting from owning the company.

Any government that seeks the highest good for the largest number of citizens without distinction as to race, class, or other divisions is going to need to fund its initiative s. So they will have to tax. Wealthy people who have benefitted in the past, under the Tories, from austerity for the masses snd crony capitalism for the few are now going (one hopes) to lose their preferential treatment. Boo fucking hoo.

EasternStandard · 24/05/2024 12:18

Lazytiger · 24/05/2024 12:09

Have a look at destinations for children at Richard Pate (prep in Cheltenham). 49% go onto the local grammars, other to very selective private schools. Are you saying these children were all super smart and would have got into a grammar from a state school with no tutoring (which is the rule not the exception Gloucestershire)?
Your area may not have many private preps or tutors… yet… but trust me, if your grammars are any good (and not all generate better results than a good comprehensives) then expect an influx of middle class parents and their tutored off-spring anyway. You may even get a wave of parents from Hong Kong or India as they value education even more highly then the middle class Brits.
Parents will go to great lengths to do their best for their children. Moving for a great education - even to to a new area for 5-10 years - already happens.

Of course and ex private parents will have the extra funds to do so.

Wewereonnabreak · 24/05/2024 12:20

GiantCousCous · 24/05/2024 10:10

Actually it was women and children but don’t let facts get in the way of a good jibe will you!

Indeed. Rich women and children.

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 24/05/2024 12:20

Whenwillitgetwarm · 24/05/2024 12:15

This was a party political broadcast brought to you by the Conservative Party.

Says Owen Jones on Twitter

80smonster · 24/05/2024 12:22

EasternStandard · 24/05/2024 12:18

Of course and ex private parents will have the extra funds to do so.

Absolutely they will and the larger the family (3 is a standard sized family at our school) - the more likely they are to follow this a line of action.

wombat15 · 24/05/2024 12:23

BIossomtoes · 24/05/2024 12:14

They want the brightest children rather than ones that have been extensively coached and the 11+ questions reflects that.

That’s good to hear. Ideally the exams should be formulated in such a way that no amount of coaching could impact on the result.

They do try. I know a lot of children at my DDs' grammar hadn't had any tuition and those that had a minimal amount (including my DC).

pinkzebra02 · 24/05/2024 12:25

The government has intentionally allowed immigration to become a huge issue because more unskilled workers = lower wages for most people = higher profits for big business.
Let's not forget a bigger population = higher house prices = more interest on property investments
Let's also not forget overpopulation = crumbling infrastructure/ people have hard lives= you can privatise their basic needs and they'll be willing to spend money to escape misery

None of it is an accident. Until a party is willing to address this issue this country is doomed.

Elphame · 24/05/2024 12:25

IClaudine · 24/05/2024 11:03

I am old enough to remember 1997 and the same dire predictions about a Labour win meaning the rich leaving the UK etc.

And immediately we had such a devastating tax raid made on our pension schemes that the final salary schemes all closed and personal pensions were seriously damaged.

From having one of the best private pension regimes in the world, we now have one that means a lot of people now retire in relative poverty.

wombat15 · 24/05/2024 12:34

Elphame · 24/05/2024 12:25

And immediately we had such a devastating tax raid made on our pension schemes that the final salary schemes all closed and personal pensions were seriously damaged.

From having one of the best private pension regimes in the world, we now have one that means a lot of people now retire in relative poverty.

My final salary scheme closed later on when the Tories were in power.

mrsdineen2 · 24/05/2024 12:37

Elphame · 24/05/2024 12:25

And immediately we had such a devastating tax raid made on our pension schemes that the final salary schemes all closed and personal pensions were seriously damaged.

From having one of the best private pension regimes in the world, we now have one that means a lot of people now retire in relative poverty.

I was only 10 in 1997 so forgive me for not knowing - how did the government raid money from the pensions? How much did they forcibly withdraw from these scheme and under what legislation? And how did they prevent employers from offering DB scheme?

EasternStandard · 24/05/2024 12:38

80smonster · 24/05/2024 12:22

Absolutely they will and the larger the family (3 is a standard sized family at our school) - the more likely they are to follow this a line of action.

Yes it’s a fair old chunk of money to put into a house, pricing out others

Byronada · 24/05/2024 12:39

*And immediately we had such a devastating tax raid made on our pension schemes that the final salary schemes all closed and personal pensions were seriously damaged.

From having one of the best private pension regimes in the world, we now have one that means a lot of people now retire in relative poverty.*

Yes, there's this myth that people approaching retirement have gold plated pensions. My final salary scheme closed and my pensions are now worth very little. I'm planning to take them now so that they can't raid them any further.

poetryandwine · 24/05/2024 12:42

Hi, OP -

Not to sound trite, but if ever anyone was looking at the glass half empty!

I pay higher rate and DH pays highest rate, and while we don’t exactly enjoy it, at the moment we feel that if the money were being used properly we would be fine with an increase - say, to rebuild the NHS, clean up our waterways, improve local services, etc

Gently, do you enjoy your job? There is a striking lack of reference to job satisfaction in your posts. Instead it sounds like you are working primarily for the dosh. For many that is a necessity, but generally at the higher income levels you have more choice.

If you don’t particularly want a full time job, of course you should cut back. But own your choice.

How did you become so focussed on the idea that a nice house in London and private school were key components of life satisfaction? What are the issues with either improving your current house, if it is in catchment areas for good schools, or moving to a better, less expensive house in a good catchment area further out - with a commute that hundreds of thousands of others routinely manage?

Again by all means do what you like. But don’t blame Labour for policies they haven’t even announced, that may be necessary to keep the UK from even greater decline. TBH it sounds like you’re disillusioned because for whatever reason you aren’t on a family income of £300K+, which is about the minimum it would take to get out of the ‘grimy areas’ into a nice terrace in London and put your DC in private schools.

Comparison is indeed the thief of joy

Wewereonnabreak · 24/05/2024 12:47

Byronada · 24/05/2024 12:39

*And immediately we had such a devastating tax raid made on our pension schemes that the final salary schemes all closed and personal pensions were seriously damaged.

From having one of the best private pension regimes in the world, we now have one that means a lot of people now retire in relative poverty.*

Yes, there's this myth that people approaching retirement have gold plated pensions. My final salary scheme closed and my pensions are now worth very little. I'm planning to take them now so that they can't raid them any further.

Yep. I don’t save into a pension anymore. It makes money for other people whilst it’s being invested. For years and years. Then, eg, a year before retirement it could all disappear. Not taking that risk, I prefer more control.

wombat15 · 24/05/2024 12:48

Love the fact that people are trying to blame the labour party for the fact their pension is not good given the Tories rather than Labour have been in power for the last 14 years. The main reason is that people were living much longer after they retired so final salary schemes were not sustainable. It was easy to give final salary pensions when people only lived for a couple of years after retirement but far more expensive when they live another 20 or 30 years.

BlackEyesLikeADollsEyes · 24/05/2024 12:49

And immediately we had such a devastating tax raid made on our pension schemes that the final salary schemes all closed and personal pensions were seriously damaged.

This is true - but the raid is not the only cause. The rot in pensions had started with Thatcher's introduction of MFR - which limited how many assets a pension scheme could own as an attempt to stop companies using pension scheme to reduce tax bills. (Actually introduced by Nigella Lawson's dad, as I recall.)

That drastically changed how companies provided pensions and started the move from DB to DC - limiting how companies invested in pensions so that they could not put more in when profits were good (they hit the limit). That meant lots of companies simply stopped paying into pensions when the going was good, so that they didn't attract this extra tax. And led to a shortfall when it came time to pay those pensions - so they shifted to DC as a way to reduce the risk on them.

In 97 Gordon Brown abolished the tax relief on pensions - which did have an impact and was daft considering the small return it gave the gov - but was also a continuation of the reductions in that relief that has started under the previous Tory government.

This was further compunded by the International Accounting Standards Board introducing new regulations that forced companies to declare pension liabilities as part of their financial reporting - which meant any still with DB looked like their were in the red, not the blank - so they stopped doing DB and moved to DC which made their numbers look better.

It's easy to say Labour single handedly ruined DB pensions, but this massively simplifies a complex set of circumstances that was brought about by the Tories, the IASB and then added to by Labour.

DonnaBanana · 24/05/2024 12:50

Yes when I got a promotion last year I said I don’t want the pay rise but want the equivalent cut in hours. So I earn the same but work only four days a week and stay under the band. Win win for everyone except my patients