AIBU that the Tories were mad to close sure start centres?

[Tristar15]

Has anyone else seen the report today about the impact of Sure Start Centres? It’s great that they had such an impact but why did the Tories close them? Did they just want something that had been a success under Labour gone?
Labour haven’t committed to reopening them by the way but there is currently nothing plugging the gap and it will be years until the impact of what the Tories say replaced them will be seen (not that I’m expecting this to have anywhere near the impact Sure Start had).

I loved ours, I went to baby/toddler groups there where I met people who are now close friends. I then worked there until they restructured and closed 😢

Another Middle class mum here who was so grateful for the sure start centres - our local one honestly saved me from PND and might have even saved my marriage. On the face of it I might not have seemed vulnerable but I was so incredibly lonely and exhausted and lost, and those drop in sessions were the highlight of my week.

And the social interaction that happened there between white mums and black mums and MC mums and WC mums was beneficial to us all.

And services like this don't NEED to be targeted at the most vulnerable - the evidence shows that they offer such great value for money in the long term that you can cast the net wide and include everyone and they STILL save you money.

Which survey is flawed? Have you read the report? Better educational outcomes and less need to access other public services when older for the most deprived children. Not sure how that is flawed?

I (MC) went to the local ones which were fortunately still open. It was really mixed and included people who were referred by health visitors etc. The staff were lovely but also noticeably and correctly focused on the parents (mothers) who needed support and not on me. I very much doubt me being there affected the support money going where it needed to go. It's true that having them be for everyone makes a significant difference to how they are perceived.

Given the number of young children Tory male Prime Ministers have had whilst in office, you would have thought they would be supportive.

Whilst not agreeing with the sexism, there is some merit in the old Jesuit expression 'show me the boy until age 7 and I will show you the man'.

The flaw (from the reports I've seen, I haven't read the full research, so happy to be corrected) is that it's based on distance from the bricks and mortar, without consideration for which services existed before the centres and after, and where those services were based.

Because the existence of bricks and mortar centres and the provision of services are not synonyms

This.👆

As a young woman I worked in a local council in a deprived area of England. Our team were responsible for accessing funding for SureStart centres and then working with the managers to convert the buildings and establish the services for the communities. At the time I remember thinking that the outcomes we were setting were so far in the future so today's report has made me happy of what the teams achieved in setting the centres up but so so sad that they are now a shadow of their former selves, if open at all.

The centres had a Creche, health visitors, GP, CAB , credit union and more special services such as OT and SALT on a rosta. The key thing was familiarity and the same team would be there regularly unless on holiday. We would run courses on healthy eating, IT skills with the local library, family crafts and CV writing (for any family member not just the parents) etc.

SureStart was amazing. I think it was the biggest achievement of the last Labour government and getting rid of it was the most destructive, shortsighted act of the current government (which is saying something as just about everything they've done has been destructive and shortsighted).

Yes I’m sick to the back teeth of middle class bashing too. I was saddened to see Wes Streetings comments yesterday about ‘middle class lefties’ who apparently are the only group bothered about the risks around greater reliance on the private sector.

It’s boring, playing to the gallery and makes me believe we won’t escape lazy culture war stuff even with a change of government. I was hoping for a more grown up leadership.

I also believe the Cameron government wanted everyone to believe that all Sure Start centres were full to the brim with sharp elbowed middle class, as they knew there would be less pushback for closing them down. It’s all culture war bullshit.

I was lucky to use one with my first. I met women from all walks of life and learned so much from baby first aid to food and nutrition.

I worked in one. It was amazing. We did so much and supported so many vulnerable women and children. We had many services that ran through it. It broke my heart when it went. I honestly think that for very little money we helped so many women and children that the impact was astounding.

Thinking more about this.
it was actually such a valuable experience to mix with a wider circle of people.
I will admit to having a sheltered upbringing and it was so good to just hang out with people with different backgrounds, religions, cultures etc and just bond over the hardships of having a newborn. We learnt from each other and it really broke down barriers in the community.

I do think the one I used was lifesaving. I'm middle class and had severe PND and no family support. The local SureStart centre was the first place I went with my baby that made me feel like I could actually survive being a parent.

It was cosy, warm, had a sensory area which was really calming. It was in a poorer area and used by a whole range of people which really helped, I think. The staff could support with all sorts of conversations. I got support with mental health and then starting solids. Others did basic skills and finding a job type courses.

Yes because once you start educating and supporting the working classes and those in need they will grow up to vote labour and that’s not what they wanted !

This.

RE the middle class bashing (and I speak as a working class girl!);

In my notably deprived village, after the energy crisis kicked off, a local volunteer group started a warm hub type thing with a free meal and free tea and coffee etc. There were no barriers to accessing it, but they made it clear on the leaflets that they were trying to help people who couldn't afford heating. Barely anyone rocked up and they packed it in within a couple of months due to lack of interest.

Meanwhile in the next village over which has a similar level of deprivation, a church community centre did a very similar thing except they advertised it as a free community event for anyone who wants to have a free meal in good company. They very took a social angle rather than a 'save money on your heating' angle, eg I remember that the posters and leaflets mentioned how people could come to use the space to WFH with the company of others. The initiative was very popular with all kinds of people and they did it again this winter too.

IME, most working class people don't want to publicly highlight themselves as a person in need in front of their friends and neighbours. That's why middle class people using sure start centres is a good thing imo.

I used to go to a great one in an inner city area of London. It was a great mix of people and really reflective of the community. The wealthy mums stayed away as there was snobbery about it (I couldn’t afford monkey music and baby gym classes like them)!

I have good memories of them but agree with @MeDaughterMerope they were a bit over strict and patronising at times. They could be a bit ott and regimented but my one had great facilities with fun water play and messy stuff. I lived in a flat with limited space so it was a godsend.

I did also like the local church group where they let us have coffee and cake (sure start was fruit only) 😆 They also let us look at our phones and chat!

YANBU - just add it to the long list of damage this government have inflicted on this country in the last decade or so.

Tristar
Labour's (understandable) response to GFA 2007-8 left budget deficits for 2010 Tory government. They chose to address this through austerity. Others may have made a different choice.

Yes and the Tories were warned again and again about the damage that austerity would do. They chose to do it anyway. And people wonder why our public services have gone to shit.

Because they’re cunts who are happy to give their mates 7 figure contracts but heaven forbid you’re a mother, even a poor mother, who wants to access friendships, care and advice for your baby.

This, a colleague was a health visitor in one, she said the social mix was absolutely pivotal to how the whole thing worked.....

This is the paper

https://ifs.org.uk/news/sure-start-greatly-improved-disadvantaged-childrens-gcse-results

Tories don’t give a shit about anybody but the wealthy who aren’t likely to use Sure Start, judge a country on how it treats its vulnerable and the result is the devastation the bastard government has caused

My experience of them was that they weren’t used by people that would have benefitted and they just saved MC parents money on toddler classes they happily have paid for otherwise.

@TinyYellow if you read the whole thread you’ll see that wasn’t most people’s experiences.