What makes you middle class?

[Singlemum90]

So a comment from my mother a few years ago has stuck with me ever since then really. When I was no longer a single mum, and found myself a little less skint, she said 'oh it's so good now you're just a nice middle class mum, I'm so proud of you'

Aside from her clearly looking down at me before this, and deciding class was what defined how she felt about me- I have often wondered what made her decide I was middle class at this point.

How do you define it? (I feel it's very subjective) Is it what family you are born into? Your income?(And what income makes the 'classes'? Is it a specific job type? The way you stick your finger out when you drink tea?
Or is it just a shitty way to divide people and how they feel about themselves?

@Notmyuser

Where we are there are too many qualified teachers for the jobs available. A lot are doing sub work to get experience. Many of the older teachers are being paid off because it is cheaper to do this and bring in new blood than to keep them on another 5 years and have to pay for subs.

You cannot transpose what happens in one area to all.

I’m presuming you started teaching quite a while ago if that was your starting wage, or was that your unqualified wage?

I can adamantly tell you having been married to a person who worked in retail and family member of multiple teachers… the retail worker is usually contractually obliged to do overtime - this means that all fairness in terms of days off goes out the window. They also will have to do weekends, bank holidays, Halloween, Christmas, Easter (all especially busy), summer holidays and half term!!

You are absolutely bananas if you think retail - for a full time job - is more family friendly. My DH started at 9 for a 12 hr shift!!

You are also talking out of your hat relative to pick ups and drop offs - pretty much everyone I know - myself, family and friends and there are a tonne of them, along with DC friends who have teacher parents go to the same school as their parent!!! It makes sense and is the default. At the end of school they walk to their parent’s classroom or they go to afterschool club which is of course reduced in price as child of staff!! Breakfast club also reduced for staff. For goodness sake one I am related to works in a private school and they get 50% off the fees for their kids! By the way their partner manages to work a full time more demanding job and doesn’t need to be a SAHM.

I’m am sorry but I cannot buy the ‘poor teacher’ rhetoric at the moment when there are so many more much worse off and even more than that who suffered enormous inequality and financial hardship during the pandemic.

And actually I have several friends and relatives in 30s in the profession now so I am not just talking about geriatrics!!

Teachers also don’t get any more holidays than retail workers. @Notmyuser , how do you work that out?

Retail workers are under some of the worst contracts going, FT statutory is 20 days plus BH? 28 Total? Teachers are, what, 12 weeks plus BH outside of school holidays?

I have seen teachers try the old, "we're salaried for the 40 weeks" trick and the holidays are unpaid. That's pretty disingenuous. I'm on a fixed salary and don't go around saying I'm on 50k p.a. for 260 days minus 25 annual leave minus 8 days BH so I I'm salaried 227 days for £50k. If you compare that like-for-like the teachers package looks even better!

Admittedly, as a teacher you don't get to choose them, and holidays are way more expensive, but for twice the holidays as virtually every other job, I think I'd go for the teachers set up.

My mothers definition of middle class was 'knowing the difference between an aubergine and a courgette'. I still have a chuckle to myself in LidL / Waitrose.

My in-laws said that the definition of being middle class is being able to afford an 80inch TV on the wall, with dolby etc. but don't buy it because its 'vulgar'.

I started teaching 13 years ago, so I’m not wet behind the ears but not long in the tooth either.
i
I do not know anyone who works in the school their children attend, it’s frowned upon to live too close to the school you work in because it can blur professional/personal lines. There are no school based after school clubs here either, and we most certainly don’t get discounts (although I don’t know anyone in the private sector)

If teachers have it so much easier than everyone else, why haven’t you retrained?

Teachers get the same paid holidays as everyone else, the rest IS unpaid. You can disagree all you like but it’s in our contract.

I get just over 0.2 days annual leave per day worked, which is 40 days per year as outlined below:

5.2 The normal pattern of annual leave will be determined by the council, after consultation with the teacher trade unions recognised by the council. It is recommended that annual leave given in full weeks and is set as follows – Autumn Holiday 5 days, Festive Holiday 10 Days, Spring Holiday 10 days, Summer Holiday 15 days (to include the final week of the holiday period).

@Notmyuser I have a disabled child and need to wfh and have more flexibility. But I would love to teach so perhaps I will at a later point, though likely to be higher Ed or secondary.

SunnyUpland

I feel both. You cannot argue with how I feel.

@Notmyuser

Also you’re giving a starting salary of 21k from 13 years ago… while criticising me for saying what my parents have retired on more recently and what my other family/friends in their 30s are currently getting/benefitting from. And I’ve given the pay scales for what a starting salary for a teacher is TODAY - £28,000.

Some of the teachers I know live near the schools, some a considerable distance away, depends on the criteria for entry - most prioritise children of staff and there are a lot of perks not to mention logistically easier. Only one of the teachers I know is in a private setting, the rest state or grammar.

Pure

Come off it, its purely semantics. If a teacher is on 50k p.a. they will work 41 weeks p.a. which equates to 11 weeks off. Plus May Day. My contract in the private sector, which I believe is reasonably typical is 50K with 5 weeks plus 8 BH.
So 6 weeks 3 days. You work 205, I work 227.

You get 50k / 205 days = £243.90 per day
I get £50k / 227 days = £220.26 per day.

So either you say that your salary is for less days, or that your job provides more holiday. If the 22 day difference between our holiday allowance is truly unpaid, your salary would be £50k - (£220.26 x 22) = £45,154.28.

Middle class in my mind would be a nice house with an annual holiday, professional jobs probably between the 40-80k salary. They might enjoy some 'high brow' pursuits but I would not say that is mandatory for the middle class. I think people can easily become middle class. Upper middle class and above is probably less about the salary and house and more about family wealth and upbringing.

What I really hate about this, is straight, white, able-bodied men using the "working class card" to claim that they are under privileged, even when they aren't. I know several men like this. Maybe you grew up working class, but if you're sixty and a successful academic at an elite university who's reached the rank of professor, I don't think your experience is on a par with racism, or sexism. I think you are rather clutching at straws.

It is not having Sky or watching ITV! Admittedly these are the standards of 25 years ago

So why is mn full of people protesting about how wc they are as if it confers some special virtue?

I don't worry at all tyvm. Solid mc all the way.

What do you mean by "cultural clout" exactly. I could understand if you meant economic clout.

I do not know anyone who works in the school their children attend, it’s frowned upon to live too close to the school you work in because it can blur professional/personal lines.

Rubbish. I work at the school my children attend. The deputy head also has 2 children at the school, and I can think of 3 other Teachers and a couple of TA's whose children also attend . It isn't even remotely "frowned upon" and no one cares how close you live to the school where you work. As long as you declare any personal relationships you have with school families and maintain your professionalism when dealing with any incidents it's a complete non-issue. It's been the same in every school I've worked in.

Any decent school has staff with their own children in it.

Are you my mum? 🤣

Other things she considered ‘common’ as well as Sky and ITV included (but not limited to):

Package holidays
Vauxhall cars
Ford cars, especially Mondeo
Trainers
Theme parks
Chain restaurants
Nightclubs
White bread
Sweets
Oven chips
Any kind of pop music except Rod Stewart
Smartly decorated houses
Shoes made from anything but leather
Air fresheners

She definitely thought Hyacinth Bucket was some sort of role model 😬

How can you be spotted? Accent?

They just know

@SoupChicken - now really want to know why Rod Stewart was exempt!

We live in the poshest road in the town, run a successful business, cook every meal from scratch and read The Times.

I know I am middle class because I believe educational, legal and medical institutions are there to serve me not there to get me.