To consider becoming a primary school teacher?!

[wouldibetotallymad]

Would I be bonkers?

I have NC as some of this can be linked up with previous posts.

I'm 44, 3 kids (13, 7, 4). I'm a solicitor and have been for 20 years. I don't work in private practice any longer but still work in law. I work 4 days a week and get paid well for it, now my kids are getting older I would like to go back full time. But I am bored as hell and the company I work for is becoming more and more frustrating by the day (think endless corporate training, frustrating management structures etc), but I am also bored and frustrated with the work itself. There is no novelty, just hours in front of a computer screen working on things that are of minimal interest to a minimal number of people, including me.

What attracts me to primary school teaching? The variety, the human interaction, I like being really busy and pushed, the chance to actually make a difference to children's day to day existence.

Would I be bonkers?! I know the pay will be a whole let less than what I am on right now, which we could manage (just).

I have friends and family who are teachers and they have looked at me aghast when I have mentioned the possibility . . .

Your post makes you sound like you've got a strong back bone and thick skin which you will need.
It's the training that might break you. Loads to learn and constant observation and feedback.
Once you're a few years in, know what you're doing and have enough gumption to refuse to do anything pointless, it can be a great career.

Not a lot of shortage in Primary Teaching. In some areas of the country there are more qualified staff than vacancies.
Secondary is where there are shortages. @wouldibetotallymad why primary? It's a very big difference to working in law. Many secondary schools offer law gcse and a-level which is usually a popular option, you may be better looking for a secondary school to work and train in. 15/16+ year old children are far more entertaining than 5/6year olds, and you could also make a huge difference to their lives and be the inspiration x

Based on experience of family and friends, I wouldn’t touch teaching with a barge pole! Have you ever considered fundraising work? Lots of charities like to recruit ex-lawyers and solicitors for legacy giving - a legal background can be helpful in deciphering complicated wills.

It’s rewarding work and very people-focussed, but a bit less chaotic than teaching. If you can get into a higher education institution then the work-life balance is generally quite good, and pay is probably a bit better than most teachers too.

Read some of the education board on here to see the reality of teaching today. I have a high needs send child he is violent and soils but the LA are fighting to have him in mainstream school. It's not fair on anyone.

That said if you care and are prepared then there is a desperate need for such people in teaching and you should definitely do it. Just be prepared

You now need a crash helmet, elbow pads and knee pads to stand a chance in a classroom. The behaviour is so far beyond ridiculous and I have been assaulted hundreds of times at work, along with all of my colleagues. Even the head and depute are regularly assaulted. One has been threatened with a knife in the last few months while the other has had a black eye 😶 Don’t do it! Literally do anything else

I work in a Primary School and this certainly isn't my experience or that of my colleagues. I think a lot probably depends on the school you work in, and how effective leadership is in prioritising the welfare of staff and dealing with behaviour.

That sounds incredibly stressful and I'm sorry for anyone who is working in those conditions.

Oh my GOD, yes, you are mad! 😳

Volunteer a day a week with kids if you want the interaction and variety. But FGS don’t give up a well paid, 4-days-a-week professional gig in your 40s to go into teaching. Just DON’T.

What area do you practice in? Is in house an idea? Working with non lawyers / creatives can make a world of difference!

I work in a school where workload isn't too bad, behaviour on the whole is pretty good and support from SLT is ok too. We are a young staff who all genuinely love teaching but there are at least three of us who don't really want to be doing it long term because we can see the way it's heading. Our TA support has been cut drastically due to lack of funding and there are more and more SEN children coming through who need that TA support. We constantly feel like we're failing those children by not giving them what they need, and the other children in the class by spending "too much" time with those who need that extra help. Our Senco recently went on a conference where everyone said the same and the suggested solution was "You're just going to have to get on with it because it's only going to get worse" It's soul destroying.

I was a secondary teacher. Every secondary teacher p know got out as soon as possible. It is so physically demanding. I know one teacher who made it to 60. Everyone else went at about 56/57

My knees and back were wrecked. So was my Hod’s. No one is teaching until retirement age. It’s too exhausting.

Another one saying not primary! Exhausting work. I would say go for secondary and teach law. Sixth formers are great and will have chosen the subject so generally more committed. I’m glad to be retired from classroom teaching but I miss the fun with the sixth form.

As others have said I strongly recommend doing some volunteering first. Just ask your childrens teachers if you can help they are usually crying out for help. Even a morning a week will be eye-opening. Watching my daughters teacher attempt to teach Maths, Phonics, Music and Writing in the space of 3 hours to 30 children with wildly varying capabilities is eye-opening (In a very good school with generally high levels of numeracy and literacy).

You will be halving your pay (at least, plus no bonuses or yearly pay rises) and you will be frazzled! Rewarding yes, but seriously don’t make any decisions until you’ve seen it for yourself! (And I wouldn’t recommend volunteering in year R as so play based you probably won’t get a proper feel for the lessons etc. or just doing reading in the corridor as you won’t experience it either!).

I feel sad saying this because, until last year, I loved my job and never complained. I never moaned about the pay, the hours, the scrutiny, the paperwork or the constant new initiatives. I career-changed into teaching and always thought teaching was easier. But the last year or two have seen me off. I just cannot get my head around the breathtaking levels of interference and entitlement of parents. I am so tired of being spoken to like staff, or as if I am beneath them, or openly threatened. The constant barrage of messages about trivial things that are exaggerated. Constantly defending every decision I make. And it's awful to see what that level of helicoptering does to a child's confidence and resilience. I'd never recommend teaching now, there aren't many jobs where irate 'customers' are at your door twice a day for years and years, insisting on your immediate attention, challenging you without fear of repercussions.

I was on a course earlier this week where several heads were discussing how hard it is to recruit now - one said he'd employ anyone who was breathing and had a teaching degree. It's very sad to see standards slipping, which further erodes public confidence in the profession, so just a sort of spiralling down of the entire education system. Blame anyone who voted for tory cuts to public services or anyone who has tied a teacher up in endless pointless emails over something stupid.

You work four days a week? Weekdays?
So go into school as a volunteer on your day off. Or if you work at the weekend, go in two days a week. Keep it up for a year and then decide.

We can’t recruit teachers.. using supply too often. Good teachers are leaving as they’ve had enough. The classroom is the tip of the iceberg. I know several secondary teachers off with stress due to aggressive teens abusing them. Too much that used to be parent responsibility is being heaped on teachers . Apparently tooth brushing is on the cards for school breakfast clubs!

I’ve taught both primary and secondary. I really thought I’d enjoy primary more, but I ended up much preferring secondary - particularly a-level because students really want to learn and disruptive behaviour is lower.
I seriously recommend experiencing both to check which one you feel more suited to.

@lemonmeringueno3 I am so sorry to hear this, it's horrible. I also find it perplexing as I would never behave like this and like to think most other parents at my girls' school wouldn't. Are the parents mostly v middle where you work? I do think some parents have the most ridiculous expectations as to what school and teachers are actually there for

@lemonmeringueno3 sorry, I also meant to add .... Do you think anything particular has changed in the last few years to prompt this? Thanks for sharing your experiences.

I am a primary teacher. I would say think very carefully. Each school is very different. If you find the right primary school for you, it is just about doable. For some ppl that means a non religious school with 3 form entry so you can share planning and set for phonics internally. For others it means a small village school where you have complete autonomy but no spare staff for interventions and have to do extra playground duties etc. Pros and cons of each.
Seperately though, these are my cons of going into primary teaching now.
1 an increasing amount of time is spent on behaviour management-think 60-80%of each lesson. Behaviour is rapidly declining, we are having to overtly teach basic skills like "if a teacher talks, children dont" "listening means stop moving,talking and look at the person who is speaking" etc. This is very draining every day.

1. Because children don't know these skills, it's just not as much fun as you think, and a lot less teaching happens than you think. E.g. I got interrupted 16 times whilst taking the register this morning...despite setting clear expectations every morning since September. It is exhausting.
2. Increasing numbers of children are in mainstream schools with special educational needs. Lower primary workload is therefore increasingly taken up with the various specialists to get those children an EHCP so they xan get the help they need. This is INCREDIBLY time consuming and frustrating. You get no extra pay or time off to do this, it just encroaches on your spare time.
3. There is no money in education. This means less time being a teacher and more time fixing the photocopier/heater/being a dinner lady/doing roles you haven't been trained for because the school cant afford it. This massively impacts your mental health and team spirit. Nobody had time to sit down and chat about best practise/how to help the kids, we all work through every break and lunchtime.
4. Because of the above, you will get hurt physically if you are a primary teacher. It is very hard to have this happen to you multiple times and be told it is "just part of the job now". It is also very hard to see the impact of a couple of children's violent behaviours on the rest of the class, day in day out. I find that the hardest part of teaching, my anger at the disgrace of lack of SEN funding meaning I can't teach the lowest ability children who desperately want to learn, because I need to be used as a human punch bag instead by a child who hasn't got access to the help they by law should have.

Honestly, some days I just want to weep and weep and weep. I've gone from believing I can make a difference to being happy on the few days nobody gets hurt. That is how bad primary education now is. Certainly in lower primary, upper primary still have a few literate children who have been unaffected by this mess. It's not much just workload, it's the emotive nature of the workload because you care about them so much. You have no down time each day, at all, for 10 hours at a time. E.g. 5 years ago I could wolf down a sandwich whilst making books during lunchbreaks, so have a rest from being front of house, even if still working. Whereas now, even during 30mins of lunch, I'll be sat marking books and have 2-3children come to me in tears because they have been hurt on the playground, or I will be called to positively handle a child into a "quiet room". The relentless stress is just unreal. There's no less pressure either, I still have to get 30 children's data improving despite evacuating the class out of the room multiple times a day whilst furniture is thrown about.

I work in a middle class village school.

My suggestion would be to try FE rather than primary. It’s still hard but you can have some great discussions teaching A Level and teenagers can be fun too.

Having been both a TA to get some experience, and then a primary teacher, I would say that you won't get a sense of the reality of the role from being a ta. Just to bear in mind. I would have that the biggest thing you would struggle with, coming from another professional career, is the lack of autonomy in primary teaching. You have to do what you're told basically, even when you know it's not in the best interests of the children, and you could find better ways to do it yourself. But you're not allowed to. You have to follow school policy, and you won't get any input into that. I adore working with children, but this aspect of it is just beyond frustrating.

I don't know op. I know many blame covid for changing attitudes to education - certainly attendance is much lower than it was pre-covid, suggesting that some parents see education as almost optional now. I think many parents experienced mental health difficulties during that period, whether they realised it or not, and it has made them almost angry and combative with schools, and simultaneously hugely over-protective of their children. That period is probably responsible for the gaps in learning and social skills in children, who honestly cannot cope with the slightest level of challenge and seem less mature than in previous years - toileting, nose blowing, sitting on a chair, using cutlery all skills many find hard. I have heard iPads and passive entertainment blamed for lack of social skills and poor vocabulary. Huge influx of EAL in our area that stretches resources. Full 50% of my class with SEND - not complaining about this just explaining the level of challenge involved in meeting all needs. All fine until a parent kicks off because their 6yo lost their in-named jumper, or why did their kid come home sad when all they did was punch someone.

@wafflingworrier this is so sad, and makes it me extremely angry for you and all the other teachers and parents being let down so severely.

Deteriorating standards of behaviour (and noting your subsequent point about SEN), what do you think is behind this lack of basic skills? Obviously in reception (where my youngest is), a certain amount of shouting out, not sitting etc is to expected, at least to start with, but what do you think is behind this wider issue of worsening behaviour in the classroom in primary?

Thank you @lemonmeringueno3 , that's interesting and bloody depressing in equal measure. I did smile a bit about the loss of jumpers (it's a consistent moan in my daughter's class WhatsApp group 🙄).

I’m a HLTA in primary for last 8 years. I agree with @lemonmeringueno3 . Have never known so many 6 year olds that can’t put their own coats on for example. That’s a relatively minor point but 30 chn have to put their coat on several times a day under your care. I have 3 big bruises on my shins this week and last week a bite to my arm(SEND that need specialist provision but there is none) and I’m in KS1!