Why are so many parents anti-school?

[DrowninginMaryBeardsBeard]

I'm a member of a few homeschool/ unschooling groups as I like their ideas and I want some tips to encourage learning in every day life. My kids go to school. This isn't perfect and both have gone through stages of school refusal. They are genuinely happy now.
But in generally, schools are good right? My kids do so much more at school than I would be able to offer. They have trips, forest school, sports, technology, science labs, art supplies. I could never provide all that.
I get that there are many SEN kids who can't attend school and I have so much sympathy and empathy for those parents and kids. But parents who call school 'twelve years of prison'? Where's the justification for that?
Is it due to the parent's bad experiences? Wanting to be in control?
Term time holidays?
Plus there's the problems with socialising, monitoring screen time, getting them into university with non standard education? It seems like it's quite an extreme choice and I'm not sure I understand it? Most of these parents went to school, so how can they know that not going to school is best for their children? Where are those children's points of reference when they see children go to school?

I enjoyed school and received a good education! However I don't think the standard of education is anywhere near as good as it was, to many petty pointless rules as well. Instead of teaching critical thinking and analysis kids today are receiving a leftie indoctrination and are being taught how to follow rules and be good little robots! The class sizes are huge as well!

It seems to me that, apart from the odd bad 'un, primary schools are mostly lovely, nurturing places where the staff and teachers try their utmost to meet children's needs and children are exposed to lots of fun experiences. Austerity and funding cuts and the emphasis on formal learning have had an impact, but I think most still offer a positive experience for many children.

Secondaries seem to be much more of a mixed bag. I think some take such a draconian approach, applied without common sense, that they are quite drab, scary, prison-like places where children are intimidated and controlled rather than nurtured, respected and encouraged. Unfortunately secondary is also the level at which school is most necessary as subject knowledge becomes much more specialised and harder for parents to deliver. So even there, there is probably a net benefit to most kids being in school.

Agreed!!! Reading OP post and other posters all very ignorant and “uneducated” funnily enough to what home Ed is .

I do feel that there are more people that are anti-school. I also think more people are anti establishment these days too. I also think this is individualism gone too far.

I also think being a kid these days is more complex - social media, online, less time outside, more paranoia etc.

Yes, we all care about our children but I also think more energy could go into pushing for change within schools. It’s easier said than done and takes a while. I’m a working parent and I don’t think I personally have the ability to homeschool - but I also have been so heavily involved with my DDs school. From demanding 121s with teachers if needed. Asking for support if it was needed. Raising things with head teachers. Writing emails and having things on paper. Speaking to other parents and forming a community to share and push the school for change. Although sometimes it felt like the school were not taking us seriously, eventually when it starts to affect reputation, jobs etc things begin to change.

I was part of the PTA (I also think more needs to be done to better parent teacher relationships) and I noticed so many parents were angry, would come to us (as PTA) to solve problems but wouldn’t take up the suggestion to go directly to the teachers or even the governors. Also a few parents would go in with an all guns blazing approach.

We can’t ignore that there are rubbish schools and I know parents that have felt unheard. But we have also lost sense of community - at least in the city where I am.

I know your comments aren’t directed towards parents of SEN children but you only need to be a member of the ‘Not fine in school’ facebook group to see why so many parents end up being anti school- unaddressed SEN needs, mental health difficulties, bullying, the list goes on. Plus’s parents being fined or even in one instance being subject to safeguarding because they couldn’t get their child in to school. We loved our DD’s school & wanted to make it work however we ended up being quite disappointed at how the school managed her autism. I’m now a member of a few homeschool groups & I don’t think they’re anti school as such but most people that homeschool do so because they aren’t happy with elements of the education system.

HE children can and do take exams and go to university. But not all parents can afford the exam fees, and some subjects are impossible to do at home as they need ongoing assessment, so again you have to pay for this.

Mine went to school and the older ones mostly enjoyed it. My younger two eventually ended their school lives in independent specialist schools which they really enjoyed. Dd now has an EOTAS programme which is essentially HE but the LA fund everything from tutors to TA's to mentors and community groups and therapists and all tech,materials and exams. Parents fight long and hard for similar and I fought because there was no alternative but I hate it. My home feels over run by people coming in to work with dd, I am the co ordinator so I spend a lot of time organising and tweeking when I preferred it when the school were doing all that. If there was a placement I'd grab it with both hands if I'm honest.

I used to be really pro-school until my DCs told me how ‘toxic’ their secondary school was. This was more to do with friendship issues, but also the culture of the school breeding a certain type of atmosphere/person.
At one point I’d offered to look in to a different school for them, but they said no, so they stayed & got on with it! Even stayed for sixth form where there was a viable alternative. There was never a problem with the education side, they both did really well.
i couldn’t have home schooled though, didn’t have the patience , space, brains etc. and needed to work.
I suppose it’s horses for courses and I know of a few HE children who’ve done really well - usually gone to college for further Ed and then uni or some other educational pathway.
School is def not for all, but nor is it a prison. There def needs to be more funding, less authoritarianism and more SEN provision.

We are ex HEers and I think a lot depends on the schools and HE community where you live.

Both my kids are ND and the structure/external pressure of school gets them to learn/do their work in a way I couldn't.

They were very isolated and even verbally taunted at HE groups. There were a few other ND children there (suspect there may be more now since lockdown, we stopped HE before that), but that didn't mean they became friends. At school they are made to feel part of the community and the other children are encouraged to be understanding in a way I didn't see a lot of the HE parents do - they were all "you don't have to be around him, don't play with him if you don't want to" - a very individualist mindset which is fair enough, and I can see their logic and that is on to have boundaries, but we have found school more inclusive rather than just "it's ok to leave him out if you guys want to".

When we left the HE community to give school a shot only one person stayed in touch with us as we had crossed to enemy lines!

You say "so many" parents but then go on to explain you've joined homeschool groups? Of course you are going to hear those ideas and thoughts!
Most of the general population don't think that way though you have just surrounded yourself with people that do

It’s like a meat eater joining a vegan group and then wondering why she was seeing so many people in the groups who are against eating meat.

I home Ed, I am not anti school tbh, I just chose a different route for my own dc. Of course home edders are anti school, some kids have a horrific time there due to needs not being met or bullying and then you have some being anti school because they are a bit wobbly on their choice and feel they need to justify it(usually the newer home educators).

There are loads of general education groups OP, you don’t need to join home ed groups for ideas.

@Swirlyyyy that's interesting and I've heard similar stories to be honest. Like I said, I have a dd with SEN and school has not been great. I've had a few rows with the SENco and for while HE looked to be my only option. My DD's own teacher said that it would be the ideal option in an ideal world where I wasn't the only earner and a single parent. So that's when I joined the groups because I wanted to ask things like 'how do you work?' And I just found the options were either that you had a dc who some how self taught for hours at a time whilst you 'wfh' which my extremely distracted, dreamy daughter just wouldn't do. She's two years behind in everything but reading. She just wouldn't sit at a text book and do exercise after exercise, well she has done before but when I look back every single answer is wrong because there isn't that 1:1 saying 'think about it' or 'spell it out'.
For all that a lot of HE parents say their children have additional needs, there are actually a lot who exclude on these grounds because they can't apply for EHCPs or offer 1:1's. My dd has a 1:1 in school and she doesn't have an EHCP. If your child has really challenging behaviour related to autism, none of them will accept you. I think they fit one type of child with additional needs. I just couldn't see how my very easily distracted child with learning difficulties would just play in the woods for hours and then magically be able to pass GCSE's at 16. It just wouldn't work for her.
We had a private maths tutor for a while who quit because he felt ill equipped to teach her due to her autism, and this was no A level student but a fully grown man who was a teaching assistant. So this idea you could just pay and everything would be ok is not true for us.
I completely understand the parents who feel let down by the school system. At one point I felt they were trying to get me to leave but I stayed registered and just fought and fought. Because there really is no better option.

You have selected to be in groups though which are by their nature anti-school. You aren't going to find people raving about how great teachers and schools are in a group devoted to homeschooling or de-schooling or whatever. Just as in a group for your local primary school you're not going to find people who are massive fans of homeschooling.

A lot of it is parents' own experience with the school system. They have had a bad experience and assume it will be the same for their own kids.

There other routes for exams as well as paying. We had a local community college that offered a range of GCSE exams for free. The route my DS took was going to a FE college at 14.

But it is an unnatural environment for some, particularly neurodiverse, children to learn in.

Both of my children ended up at home not through choice.

My eldest school refused and was trying to kill himself aged 10 because he couldn't cope with the environment of a small main stream primary school. Turned out he was undiagnosed autistic.

He was so traumatised he was not taught for the entire of his secondary education. He was eventually well enough to pick up text books in year 11 and self taught and passed 6 GCSEs.

He transitioned to mainstream 6 form and has managed there with subjects he really enjoys and children who want to learn, so now is being taught for the first time after 7 years.

He has done so well even with a massive gap in his education/ teaching that he has an interview at Oxford University to read his chosen subject on Monday next week.

He has been shortlisted for nterview above candidates who have been schooled for the whole time (bar obviously the covid disturbance to schooling).

I'm not anti school. I am a realist though and know damned well that schooling isn't for every child.

That's really sad. I think you're right the Home Ed community can make it or break it. We had a lovely HE community and we all worked really hard to be inclusive.

I have been tempted to HE my youngest because she is so frustrated by the badly behaved children disrupting lessons, the supply teachers who aren't really teaching and the irrelevance of some of what they do such pushing the woke agenda etc.

School as it should be - a place to learn academic subjects to further your education is a perfectly good concept but these days they are also trying to fit in everything that should really be taught by home and family too. Schools shouldn't have to tolerate bad behaviours either under the guise of inclusion as this has an unfair impact on the children who do want to learn. Those children need help, but school wasn't meant to be the place for it.

I'd find it hard to WFH and home educate. I'm a nurse so worked shifts. As for self teaching I definitely experienced this with my autistic boy. But it didn't involve textbooks or sitting for hours. It was learning through play and following his lead. Hard to explain. I wouldn't have really believed it possible if I'd not seen it myself.

But I'm now in the position of fighting for school for my DD. I just got her in to a school which can meet her needs through an appeal. Whatever way we do it with SEN kids it is always a lot of hard work.

I'm one of those unhinged extremists, scarred by my experiences. DD is now at school and LOVES it, but I think i could supply trips, art supplies and science experiences perfectly happily. I could also get her into uni - i got in despite not having the right quals and so did a family member. You just produce work to the correct standard, they want bums on seats ££££s. I find dealing with the school hell, and DD is getting bullied (she blames the boys, not the school, sees the school as on her side). I still think its all an unhealthy atmosphere. Parking is a nightmare twice a day every day, the teachers are no doubt completely burnt out (i have teaching friends and family) and are patronising and rude to me. I'm looking forward to it being over.

Like anything, I suspect HE is hugely varied and depends on the groups you are in, the area etc. I grew up in a fairly religious community and a fee of the people I was at school with HE because they don't want the increasingly secular school environment for their dc. I have noticed those HE groups tend to stick together, use a faith based curriculum etc.

A friend is HE jer Dd due to significant ND that means she can't cope with regular school. Her experience around here is that HE tends to fall into 3 camps - religious (albeit less insular than the ones from my home), SEN and then the 'anti school/my children are unique' gang. She tells me that she has quickly found herself gravitating to the first 2 groups but the third is awful as the children tend to be practicly feral! But that's also her specific, in our little part of Surrey, experience.

You do know school is 6 hours a day take out break and lunch time . Remove p.e time and music , and the time split between 20/30 kids . Your child doesn’t need that much time spent daily on home Ed. Also the travel time in a day .
1 to 1 is more valuable . You have your kid in swimming lessons or athletic club that covers p.e you can pay for music lessons .
Then you spend the time with them on maths reading , English etc. You can go to science museums / centres . They can spend time on the subjects they like abs hat best suits them as a person .
Home Ed is life skills experiences along with “basic” learning .
It doesn’t need to be expensive or excessive .
loads of people work and home Ed.
Hone Ed isn’t 9-3 it’s what works for the child/family.
There are home Ed groups too kids are certainly not isolated.

I feel in my experience the people who don’t think kids should be home educated are the one s ignorant to it. They haven’t leaned enough about it . Yet they think school is best no matter what . How can that judgement be made without enough knowledge ok the subject.

I'm not anti school if it suits the needs of the child, but there are plenty who have a different learning style to that utilised in schools. It isnt a choice and said children are not simply being inflexible for the sake of it. That'd be like me calling an inherently analytical individual unreasonable because they didn't find creativity easy.

It's not difficult to plant seeds of self doubt into children that then often, manifest into dysfunctional patterns of thinking as an adult. A great way to do this is to force a child who simply cannot grasp learning effectively in the way in which it's presented in schools, into this environment and then mark them down/put them in a lower set and generally underestimate their capabilities. Many of these children could achieve much more if their learning style were catered for, which is understandably impossible for one teacher in a class of 30 odd but far more realistic outside of the schooling system.

The world would be a very different place if [almost] everyone fulfilled their potential in whichever area this was. There's nothing wrong with parents to want this for their children and subsequently provide a more suitable learning environment if they have the provisions to do so.

That does sound area specific. Our area is much broader. I'd say in our group that 5% HE for religious reasons, 10% anti establishment school haters, 35% for SEN and 50% just because we think HE is better than school for various reasons.

I hated school 40 years ago as a teenager. Not only was I bullied daily which made my life a misery, I hated most of the lessons and subjects too. They were far too restrictive and mostly irrelevant. After all, how many adults genuinely needed to have learned how to solve quadratic equations - so why are all kids taught to do it?

I found art and tech subject teaching very poor - often by teachers of other subjects who just did it because they'd had a nervous breakdown - our woodwork teacher had previously been head of Maths and hadn't a clue about woodwork - the kids who had parents/uncles with workshops did very well, everyone else just spent an entire term sanding down a wooden fish!

Apart from poor teaching, they're stuck in a time warp of 50 years ago. For the past 10 years, our son was at secondary school. I couldn't believe how little had changed in the intervening 40 years! That's at a time of unparalleled change in the real world.

I hated the way that lazy teachers would give a whole class punishment, i.e. detention, staying behind, etc., when they couldn't be arsed to work out the few pupils who'd been disruptive etc. That kind of injustice stays with you!

Comps are fine if you're a "middling" average student. But if you're a high flyer or under-performer or have issues such as bullying, etc., you're basically ignored and just have to go with the majority, whatever damage that does to your education.

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

My child moved from a school with almost 100% of the children being excellently behaved to one where there was chaos on a daily basis. Struggled for a while then completely unable to attend.

I'm not sure if it's down to the school management, the parents or just pure luck.