To think we should avoid London right now?

[StayorgoLDN]

Due to visit London in the next few weeks.

Anxious with Palestinian protests and so forth in the news. I don’t want to be near that with young children, and worried that it may escalate to some sort of attack.

We are not Jews, but presuming as the U.K. is supporting Israel that we’ll all be fair game ie there might be an attack/bomb somewhere prominent to send a message to gov.

Have been in London during terrorist attacks before and I’d rather avoid.

AIBU to consider rescheduling our family trip to next year?

@RudsyFarmer

U.K. Gov has come out in strong support of Israel and Jewish people.

Israel has already killed >1400 in Gaza in retaliation for 1300 killed in Israel by Hamas.

They have asked 1.1 million people in northern Gaza to evacuate over the next 24hrs. This is impossible due to blockades etc.

The number of Arabs that will be dying over the next few days will likely be huge.

This isn’t going to go down well with Arab nations. At all.

There will be further attacks on Israel in retaliation and likely other regions that support, including U.K.

As to what nature/when/where who knows.

But London is usually up there as it’s the capital and also the place where most British Arabs live.

Hope that’s explained things.

These threads are so tedious.

Every single time something happens in the world the panic mongers come out in force to suggest that maybe they shouldn’t travel to London because…. What if….

Remind me again how many people have been killed in London so far since the attack in Israel last weekend?

And how many have been killed in car accidents in the same time?

And in case you’ve forgotten, the last terrorist attack in the UK happened in Manchester.

OP isn't even coming to London today, she is coming in the next few weeks!

Eh? its totally fine. I mean, I probably wouldn’t plan to take your kids to the Israeli embassy but apart from that London is just carrying on as normal. would be a huge overreaction and send a really odd message to your kids to rearrange a holiday

@user1497207191 surprisingly enough there weren't spare officials handing out nice helpful leaflets on the day of a massive unexpected bombing incident.

Generally if you are caught up in oue of these things and unwounded the advice is follow police instructions, if no instructions get out of the way. Yes you may have to walk for a while and yes things may be a bit disrupted. I had to walk 8 miles home thorugh a terrified and confused city that day because there was literally no transport. But that was a small hardship compared to those who were caught up in it.

It's business as usual today.

Thank you @Cyclebabble

I’m definitely not looking to radically change my life.

Just either move accom/change some minor travel plans.

Or postpone the trip until things have settled down and the long term implications of all the violence are more clear.

Well, you might have been drinking in the Sussex near Leicester Sq, or at Victoria Station on a parity date… or if in Birmingham in a pub / club on That Night…

For example.

"Protests" celebrating Hamas killing civilians should be treated as support for terrorism and sanctioned accordingly with arrests and prosecution. I'm glad there is some pressure on police, but I would like to see much more. A free society only remains free when it is protected from those who intend harm on others. If Jewish people and their property can't be safe in London, then those who wish to make them unsafe must be made to leave London.

There is always a higher risk of terrorist attack in London, and staying away is your choice OP. It is pretty irrational given the much higher risk of other types of incident like road traffic accidents, but your choice.

To be honest, I don't voluntarily ever go into Manchester either. I do my utmost to avoid all big UK cities. They just have no appeal to me at all.

OP I understand that in your case your previous experience is making you feel unsafe. Might it help to think through the possibilities logically?

Think about it. Hamas isn't about to attack London, are they? They are not about to take a break from waging war on Israel to bomb a theatre in London. In the next few weeks either Israel will wipe Hamas out, or Hamas will still be engaged in ongoing conflict in Gaza.

Presumably you are not suggesting that British Palestinians living in London are going to start dropping bombs and attacking tourists?? So maybe you are worried that there might be loud protests, if more Palestinian civilians are killed in the conflcit? That is possible, I guess, but will be in areas you can avoid, it will be well policed, and I would imagine that most big cities will have similar. Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow all rotinely have similar vigils and Protests to those in London. I don't take young kids anywhere near protests or big demonstrations, even for causes that I support, and I've found it easy to plan to trips to avoid these.

And in case you’ve forgotten, the last terrorist attack in the UK happened in Manchester.

@MayThe4th do you think there have been no terrorist attacks in the UK since the arena in 2017?!

There have been 12. 6 in London and 6 outside.

Millions live in London, are you proposing that they all stay at home today?
The only time I got caught up in a terror incident was in a small Northern town called Warrington.
It was never on the radar.
That's the whole point of terrorism, they seek to provoke fear.

I think you have to look at genuine risk and likelihood of being killed by a terrorist attack in a city of 9m people. About 60 people have died of terrorist attacks in London in the last 20 years, a period involving many times of increased tensions worldwide. I think you'll be fine. About 2k people die on the roads each year so if you're super risk adverse, that's a much bigger risk.

Whilst I think your level of concern over a potential terrorist attack is unreasonably high, I can understand that you want to minimise risks for children, particularly as you say they have additional needs and would find disturbances very difficult to cope with. I would respectfully say that now is no more risky than any other time. London is always under threat of terrorist attacks - I'm sure the security services stop countless potential attacks we never even get a whiff of.

Central London is well policed and, whether it makes you feel safer or not, still has the ring of steel, which has been enhanced since 7/7. As others have suggested, steer clear of embassies and planned protests and you will minimise your risk further.

Personally, I would not rearrange your trip just because of your fear someone will attack London because the UK supports Israel. There's always a war somewhere and there are always those who are against whatever stand the government of the day has taken. As a Londoner, who is taking their young child (in a wheelchair) into zone 1 today for a lego event, I feel no more unsafe now than at any other time.

That does explain it better. You are worried there might be crowds of angry people protesting and your family might get caught up in that? You could be right. At the very least it could make for a miserable trip. If there’s somewhere else you can visit, then yes that might be a good plan.

But there were "officials", such as at train stations, but they weren't giving any advice as there seems to be no actual centralised information system.

Yes, you could walk home, even if it were a long way. I was 300 miles from home and couldn't get any information as to where to walk to to have any hope of either a hotel for the night nor a train that could actually get me in the general direction of home. Obviously, couldn't walk 300 miles, but it would have been good for someone, i.e. station staff, police officers, etc to have the faintest idea as to what I should do - these are people who live in the area, presumably have resources behind them such as operations hq's etc., but basically just constantly told to "go somewhere else" or "ask someone else" isn't helpful.

Yes, it's nothing like the trauma suffered by those actually injured in the bombs, but wondering around an unknown city, with no information as to where to go or what to do, doesn't make you want to risk repeating it!

Oh shit, I've just read your update: But London is usually up there as it’s the capital and also the place where most British Arabs live. So you are actually suggesting that British people might attack you and your children just for - being white in London?? I think probably most of London would prefer you not to visit, with attitudes like that.

Edit: or actually, maybe you are worried about protests and loud crowds. I can't figure it out. If crowds and protests: should be easy to avoid by avoiding the area it will be in, unless you are planning to go to a specific place in London, which might be a protest place.

Well, you might have been drinking in the Sussex near Leicester Sq, or at Victoria Station on a parity date… or if in Birmingham in a pub / club on That Night…

For example.

Since when has Birmingham been in London & it would unusual for a child to have been out drinking….

No need for that. That comment was in response to a jewish poster living in London. Is no one allowed to feel stressed, unless they are in an actual war zone?

@BlurredEdges I am so sorry this is happening, I’m not Jewish but my Grandmother took in Jewish refugees in WW2 and my Mum said her and the little girl used to play together. She wondered what happened to her often but she couldn’t remember her family name. I have only visited a synagogue once and there was strict security on the door, it made me feel very sad. I can’t do anything except let you know I feel for you and all Jewish people who feel vulnerable in these awful times.

Any demonstration can go awry and things escalate. You just need a handful of trouble makers. I was at the anti criminal justice bill in 1994 which was massively chilled and more like a giant rave but it got out of hand when we got to Downing St and some attempted to storm the gates, I was almost mown down when panic set in and jumped on a windowsill, then in Hyde Park police horses were sent in to disperse the crowd, our coach had a petrol bomb thrown at it to top off the day. So London itself fine but any hint of a demo avoid.

Yes, avoid going into London but are you going to avoid everywhere else too? Because literally anywhere can be a danger.

My kids were caught up in a terrorist attack, the one at Westminster. Do I stop them going to London, no. The last thing I want them to grow up is afraid.

I live in Zone 3 and work in the City. Everything is exactly the same as it was last Friday. I haven't seen any protests and we've been out in the West End two nights this week.
It's beyond awful that Jewish businesses and people are being targeted, but it hasn't occurred to me that we, as a city might be targeted. The risk is, of course, always there, but it doesn't feel any more tense than usual.