To think we should avoid London right now?

[StayorgoLDN]

Due to visit London in the next few weeks.

Anxious with Palestinian protests and so forth in the news. I don’t want to be near that with young children, and worried that it may escalate to some sort of attack.

We are not Jews, but presuming as the U.K. is supporting Israel that we’ll all be fair game ie there might be an attack/bomb somewhere prominent to send a message to gov.

Have been in London during terrorist attacks before and I’d rather avoid.

AIBU to consider rescheduling our family trip to next year?

@Wonkasworld

The kids have certain interests that dictate going to London.

As explained previously we have booked autism only/quiet times for things and have passes/disability assistance to transit quickly through queues/crowded spaces.

They are used to walking around cities in normal circumstances.

They are not used to thousands of people shouting “free free Palestine, death to Israel” and the like, setting off flares, beeping horns etc.

There is a difference between normal foot traffic/numbers of people/street noise and the concentrations of people/noise present at a protest.

Autistic disabled people should not be barred from London anymore than someone in a wheelchair.

Everywhere we are going is accessible, as it should be.

Totally normal here in London. I've read of one broken window in a bakery in Golders Green. Wouldn't dream of avoiding anywhere.

Come or don't come. Just make your mind up one way or another and stop trying to drag us all into your drama.
London has pretty much been on high alert since 9/11, certainly since 7/7. We live with it, and we don't need people like you creating hysteria where there is none.

@beguilingeyes

Not creating hysteria, looking for local perspective on the situation and advice. There have been many kind posters who’ve helped by explaining where we are liable to encounter difficulties, stations to avoid in the tube etc and others who’ve suggested alternatives in Greater London. All of which is helpful.

There is a certain amount of emotion on the thread but that is more to do directly with the situation in Palestine/Gaza than me asking for advice relative to London with tensions are high.

I am confused - do you really think In cases like 7/7 for example “ Londoners “ were better equipped and less sacred than those who had travelled in for the day ???

NO - do you know what I did, I say waiting for phone calls of family members who use London transport whilst my family did the same to me with very little success because everyone was doing the same thing.

we may have family and friends in London I don’t think during an attack that makes us less scared !

I was in London yesterday evening with my 16 yr old ASD son - we were walking from South Bank to Covent Garden area and back again much later and there were protesters in evidence but also a police presence including helicopters. We felt fine - it was busy and felt normal but as PP said if your anxiety is high then you may not find it enjoyable- it was very visible.

@Imjusttootired

You haven’t grasped what I was saying.
Londoners would be no less sacred or scared in the event of a terror attack.

However in knowing the local geography they may know the quickest way to move away from the threat and get to safety.

They may have family/friends who work/live nearby to assist.

Genuinely, local knowledge and resources really do count in a terror situation.

OP, you sound like you have serious anxiety issues maybe for that reason alone don't come into London. No need to debate whether it's safe in London - it is. No need or the hysteria you're creating. If you feel on edge and uncomfortable then don't come in, really as simple as that.

@squidnames

I do not have serious anxiety.

I’m trying to be practical regarding taking autistic children to a city where there is liable to be disruption/protests at present.

Please rtft.

You've obviously made up your mind that it's unsafe for your kids.

Hi. I’m in London now. There were various protests and all seemed to be peaceful from what we saw, but we did generally avoid those areas. We really didn’t feel unsafe and generally there is always some sort of protest most weekends. Enjoy your trip

@squidnames

We are waiting to see if things settle within the next few days and are looking at alternate arrangements.

Currently, I would not be happy.

Really, I personally wouldn't be scared. If there was a big protest I'd avoid that area but London is huge! Plenty of other places to go in London. Life is risky - I know plenty of people who've died in the safest of places (road accidents etc). I can't just hide away.
However, if you don't want to go then don't! Fortunately your visit to London is entirely optional.

I was in London yesterday in Covent Garden and Waterloo. Got home to read the news and discover a demo had been going on 15 min walk away. Had not seen anything or had any awareness of it. What some people don’t seem to realise is that large demos in London are common. I have wandered into a few by accident over the years including a pro Palestine one in 2010. Peaceful, no violence, lots of families taking part. It’s really no big deal. If you see large groups gathering turn around and go back the way you came. They will not chase after you, you’ll be fine. If your children don’t like noise or crowds then a large city is probably not the place for you at any time.

These protests weren't peaceful. Flares and fireworks were thrown. Multiple arrests were made.

I am a lifelong Londoner and i am well aware of how easy it is to be unaware of huge protests, i know how big this city is. But this is a different kind of thing.

And as this thread and many others have shown, London is not a safe or comfortable place to be Jewish right now.

Sure but I thought the OP said she isn’t Jewish? Please correct me if I’m wrong. So her worry is not on that basis. I am a Londoner too and the OP is asking our views as people who know the place. My view is if you stumble across a large group of people that make you uncomfortable turn around and leave. We can’t predict whether something will happen if she comes here. But my experience is that generally these things can be avoided and you won’t come to any harm. There is always a tiny chance of another outcome but I’m pretty sure for the vast majority of tourists in London they come out unscathed.

I walked past Trafalgar Square yesterday, to be fair it was an unsettled atmosphere. I wouldn’t have brought an autistic child with me. To be fair that is what the OP asked.
I think the honest answer is: visiting and being in London is fine, but there is a bit of extra crowding and some emotions in a few areas that the OP can be guided in avoiding with children.
Normally I’d stop in the evening and sit in Trafalgar Square and relax a minute before the tube, I didn’t yesterday evening. It was packed with shouty pockets and a higher police presence. Not a relaxing trip destination

I'm sure the risk for non-Jewish tourists (and Londoners) is low, yes, but I don't think it sounds like much fun either.

also - maybe I'm alone in this - but I wouldn't be oblivious and blase about a protest that made a minority group feel terrified and unsafe in their own city, even if I wasn't personally part of that group. Just my personal opinion.

unfortunately it seems to hang on how much social currency can be accrued by supporting/acknowledging those who feel unsafe

Please do not “listen to your gut” as some posters suggest, when it comes to realistically and accurately judging the terrier threat level to London or anywhere else. We have MI5 and the Met Police for things like that. Highly trains and skilled professionals and as someone ho work more or less in that field, I can tell you that threat levels and warnings to the public are usually at the top end of what’s needed and very cautious. So when authorities are not telling you not to go, listen to that.

take a look at the official threat level indications. While I do understand that the news can make everyone feel anxious, there’s no reason to worry. The threat level is substantial which is third in a five point scale. However, if you feel so anxious that you won’t be able to enjoy it, then perhaps go on holiday somewhere else. But please know that there’s no logical reason to avoid going to London, beyond the unbearable conditions of tube travel.

https://www.mi5.gov.uk/threat-levels

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/t/terrorism-in-the-uk/current-threat-level-UK/

ps: apologies for a the typos!

@BlurredEdges I am in no way dismissing the experiences of the Jewish community and apologies if that’s how it came across. The OP’s post is not about that. It’s about whether she a person who is not Jewish is at risk coming to London. Although given that she appears to have no interest in being assured otherwise I’m not sure what the point of asking the question was…

@Balletdreamer

I do feel reassured from the responses that there may be a way to navigate around issues that may arise. And I have info on where to avoid now as well which is so helpful.

But I still feel in two weeks time issues may still be very fresh and prone to escalation.

And I don’t know if I have enough time now to reorganise things fully - takes a lot of prep for getting disability provision in place.

So final decision still to be made. Holding off as much as we can.

If it were just me and DH we would go for sure now. But it is nauseating having to replan for kids.

I think this somewhat self indulgent thread has run its course. Make your mind up time OP.
But don't hang around too long - any number of gatherings in london, many ethnically based. new year soon. Then chinese new year etc etc.
Chances of everyone staying at home/in their hotels for your visit somewhat limited I fear.

@FordAnglia

You’re comparing Chinese new year celebrations…..

To protests where people are angry about the extermination of their people…. And taping pictures of paragliders to themselves in support of a massacre of 1300 Jews….

I mean surely you can see there’s a different vibe there.