Nut free schools

[JustACountryMusicLoverInCowboyBoots]

I we've just had the back to school reminder that our school is nut free and that 10% of the pupils have severe allergies requiring an epipen. Pupils are not allowed anything containing nuts or seeds or that may contain them like cereal bars. No hummus etc.

My question is what happens when children with severe allergies go to high school where there are no such policies (not at the high schools that our primary feeds into anyway) and it would be more difficult to police? What happens at college and in the work place? What if a child has Nutella at breakfast or seeded toast or similar and has residue on their clothes or skin?

Severe allergies can be fatal so I understand school's stance. It's impossible to eradicate the risk completely so is it a case of minimising as much as possible? That brings me back to what happens at high school etc though?

Snacks have to be fruit or vegetables for break although many take in cereal bars despite the weekly reminders in the newsletter. My child has school dinners just in case anyone thinks I'm saying the rule is ridiculous.

My office is nut free and we’re adults.

How did you enforce this?

Ah I missed the “seeds”. Still traditionally granary bread didn’t have seeds in it beyond oat/wheat/rye/barley - many brands do t have seeds (I can’t digest seeds myself but love granary).

The rise in allergies is very alarming.

As a parent of child with anaphylactic allergies I'd just like to say a huge thank you to those absolute stalwart parents who just follow what school asks and treat my DC with kindness and care.

The worry that comes every day with being that child and having the child with life threatening allergies is probably unimaginable to those who don't live this life

There's always parents who think their DC having nuts at school should trump my DC's ability to stay alive and safe but I just want to thank those who don't vocalise how hard this is for them. .

In many secondaries, packed lunches are eaten outside, which probably reduces risk further.

None of DD's friends have serious allergies (which surprises me) but I'm pretty sure that if one of her crowd had said "I've got a nut allergy, can you avoid having nuts near me", they would all have either gone nut-free, or at least made sure that the person with peanut butter was furthest away from the sufferer and washed their hands afterwards.

@ElfAndSafetyBored @BendingSpoons Out of curiosity what other contingencies are put in place? And how strictly is it enforced? Have any incidents actually occurred?
Having a surface 'nut ban' may make things safer insofar as fewer people will bring nuts but there will always be people who forget or ignore the ban. As Allergy UK has stated a ban lulls people into a false sense of security.

It would be nigh on impossible where I work (large site with thousands of staff) to police everything people bring in.

No one polices it and I’m sure some people do eat nut products but the posters stating nut free environment must have greatly reduced the risk.
I have a friend with nut allergies so I understand how dangerous it is. Seems like a small price to pay for another human being safe/comfortable in their workplace.

The latest advice from Allergy UK, as a pp said, is NOT to enforce nut free schools.

I am happy that most primary age settings we use are happy to ask for no nut packed lunch/snack.

But no one should be asking you to avoid 'may contain'. This is absolutely ridiculous - it would only be effective if they banned every pupil from having any nut product in their own homes too.

This is the guidance from Allergy UK.

It's not about the inconvenience. But other side effects, like creating a false sense of security.
One of my former workplaces had very strict safety standards for handling equipment, own life at risk if not followed and still every other week we to remind people of the guidelines.
Where I currently work we have thousands of people and no amount of posters, emails, etc etc can ensure compliance for anything, but this is possibly because we get so many, nobody bothers to read any of it. One day certain sections were closed for construction/repairs and the number of people who just ignored the massive red signs...

The other thing is to what extent 'nut-free' is effective, of course the ban will prevent loads of people from bringing in obviously nutty foods but what about things that 'may contain' traces of nuts?

That's why a nut ban is ineffective and your attitude that it creates a 'safe and comfortable' workplace is actually quite dangerous. Risk may be reduced but not eliminated completely, which is why the main adjustment from work should be ensuring in case of a reaction appropriate medical help in the form of the designated first aid officer being trained in what to do, and clearly marked access to an EpiPen. Of course, this is more difficult to do (and places the responsibility on the shoulder of a specific person) compared to just putting up a few posters and, in the event of an issue, claiming that they have done everything possible.

I think nuts and seeds are quite easy to avoid having at school. Not all people will realise that products do contain tracées of nuts or have seeds in them. Look at how bags of peanuts have to declare that they contain nuts! I'm sure I've read that there are people that don't realise Nutella contains nuts. If there were fatal milk/fish/egg/soya/ allergies then it would be impossible to manage.

The secondary school I work at is nut free.

Some secondary schools aren't, but by the time they start secondary school, kids should be better at managing their allergies and if they are going to share food, they will be able to check it themselves for allergens.

'May Contain' is tricky, because lots of people wouldn't even think to check when shopping - and it is often products you wouldn't expect. My nephew has a nut allergy and some places (M&S for example) either have mixed production lines or take the very cautious approach - it reminds me of shops that are over zealous with 'dry clean only' labels. IIRC he could have Cadbury Creme Egg Easter Eggs, but not Dairy Milk - again, because of the 'may contain' aspect.

I suppose the key is that parents do their best to avoid bringing anything nut related into school - but if the odd 'may contain' item slips through, especially from children with no actual contact with the child with the allergy, the risk is probably low.

It could also be a problem when other children have different allergies.

I remember talking to a mum (with a nut allergy) whose daughter had a milk allergy. She said it was really problematic, because lots of the substitutes for milk then contain nuts. Typical mum, she tended to risk her allergy to make sure her child got what she needed.

It goes further than that. Any item of food prepared in a kitchen where nuts are present is technically a ‘may contains’ item and this is why a ban on ‘may contains’ is completely unenforceable.

I am going to pick you up on the peanut packaging however. Peanuts are not nuts, they are legumes. It is fairly common to be allergic to peanuts but not tree nuts, and vice versa. People who fall into these categories are often advised to maintain their consumption of the non-allergenic foods to maintain tolerance, and they therefore need to know if it is safe to consume a packet of peanuts without the risk of cross-contamination from other nuts.

Well none of those things release airbone allergens/onto surfaces.
Even for peanuts, while the dust can be a factor there is little scientific evidence for severe reactions from 'airborne' peanut proteins. As these studies are done on specific people there may very well be those who are actually that sensitive~:

https://acaai.org/allergies/allergic-conditions/food/
https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/148/Supplement%203/S32/183485/Peanuts-in-the-Air-Clinical-and-Experimental?autologincheck=redirected
https://foodallergycanada.ca/ask-the-allergist-your-questions-answered-june-2021/

Maybe something else that release crumbs/fine particles, like biscuits, would be more of an issue. Not that general biscuit allergies exist.

Please could you tell me how you enforce this? A pp has asked someone else on the thread and no-one has answered. As a teacher and the parent of a child with allergies I genuinely think it’s impossible to enforce a nut-free secondary school without very draconian policies inc searches and I would love to know how schools manage it.

To give an example - every secondary school in the country is theoretically vape-free and expressly bans all vapes and e-cigarettes. It doesn’t mean that the school site is in fact free of vapes, often quite the opposite!

or that may contain them

Do you mean you also aren't allowed products where the packet says "may contain traces of nuts"? Because if so, I think that's too restrictive. DH carries epipens for severe allergies to peanuts, tree nuts and sesame so I do understand how serious it can be. But I also know just how many things that covers! It's also pointless because if someone has nuts at home and brings in a sandwich that has totally nut free ingredients, if that sandwich required an allergy label, it would be "may contain traces of nuts" because it was made somewhere with nuts. So you're never going to eliminate that "may contain" element completely, unless everything students bring in is made in nut free kitchens.

@CallieTR

It's not something I as a parent would like to have to rely on to be honest.
Hopefully he can just use his own epic pen

I feel there has to be a better way. These are humans that are going to go out into the world where people eat.

It's ridiculous if the other children can't eat healthily with nuts, seeds, hummus. It drove mad when we had it in a previous office I worked in as that was a large portion of my daily diet out the window.

Another challenge about nut bans is that it's hard to check what it covers without sounding deliberately provocative. And it gets more confusing the more you know about allergies.

I would view a nut ban as different to a nuts and seeds ban and different again to a nuts, seeds and peanut ban. I know not everyone would make that distinction and that makes me sceptical of how effective blanket allergen bans are.

@BoringConstance I don’t think it is my attitude that is creating anything. I’m just saying what my workplace has done and that I am happy to follow it, especially since the request came from the person with the nut allergy.

If thinking has changed then they’ll probably change it at some point. At which point sales of Pret’s nut packs will soar again.

@ThanksItHasPockets

None of the products the school kitchen makes contains nuts. Staff and students are not meant to bring nuts into school. The 'may contain nuts' items aren't policed but if we see a student with a bag if cashews or peanuts or whatever we can confiscate them. Plus they aren't allowed to ear in classrooms

Thank you very much for responding. Do you mind me asking where the students eat packed lunches during wet lunch breaks? That has always been our problem as our canteen is too small and they have to eat in classrooms if it is raining. We are careful to wipe down surfaces etc.

I suspect the arrangements you describe are common across secondary schools who claim to be ‘nut free’ but if no-one is actually policing whether a child has brought in a Snickers then it’s a meaningless claim. Schools can say that they ban nuts but not that they are nut-free, in the same way that they ban vapes but can’t claim to be vape-free.

In my recent pediatric first aid training, we were told that there are now more under 10s with an anaphylactic allergy to dairy than nuts in the UK.

I found this really interesting as I have never heard of a dairy free school! As dairy is often also frequently a contact allergy, it's nothing to do with that. The school I work in is nut free as is the one my children attend. DCs school bans them everywhere though, where as mine only bans in child areas; several teachers eat nuts most lunch time in the staff room and they are tollerated at cake sales etc. I see little point in my own schools nut ban tbh, nuts are still in the buildings and on unwashed hands either way.