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Original poster

Physician associate… should I report? Yes or no?

355 replies

Elsie256 · 11/08/2023 23:04

phoned my GP to book an appointment, was told by reception I’d be seen by the emergency doctor covering.

i’ve really been struggling with really back pain and weight loss and was so grateful to have gotten an appointment. Arrived at the surgery and was called into the room and the guy introduces himself as ‘one of the medics’ , I go onto tell him my symptoms and he was very dismissive, told me I was probably overreacting and that I need not worry.

I felt something wasn’t right in how dismissive they were so I asked if I could see someone else at reception before I left the surgery.

the receptionist said ‘well if you’re still worried I can book you in with a doctor in a few days’. Turns out I’d seen a physician associate but they’d just introduced themselves as ‘one of the medics’ so I thought that meant doctor

finally got to see a doctor a few days later who looked very worried and referred me onwards straight away and very sadly been diagnosed with kidney cancer

I’m really upset about this initial visit to the GP and felt I was really misled especially as they didn’t properly introduce themselves and clearly didn’t have the appropriate clinical experience to recognise my symptoms were something more serious. should I be complaining?

OP posts:
off · 12/08/2023 07:14

All these people saying medic doesn't mean doctor, okay, but have you spent much time around doctors? They call themselves medics all the time. Maybe it's a hangover from medical school Grin

Hamserfan · 12/08/2023 07:15

I am a hospital consultant a doctor for 30 ish years. Absolutely complain, I would write a letter to the practice manager and the senior partner. The physician associates are not currently regulated in the same way as doctors but this is being introduced.
No way should they be passing themselves off as a doctor. They only do a two year degree not a five year degree followed by the first year foundation post at which point they are fully registered.
Please please do report, the practice should know about this individual.

Hamserfan · 12/08/2023 07:18

One GP practice has already had issues where a young woman later died of a lung blood clot after the related problem in her leg was misdiagnosed by the PA. More cases will come to light with time I feel as some of these guys are over confident (speaking from experience here)

FourTeaFallOut · 12/08/2023 07:25

I wouldn't necessarily assume medic meant doctor out in the wild. But if I asked for a drs appointment and was told one had been scheduled and then I turned up and medical practitioner introduced themselves as a medic then I'd assume it was a turn of phrase and was still the doctor from the doctors appointment that I booked.

Hereinthismoment · 12/08/2023 07:36

AmeliPoison · 12/08/2023 07:03

@Reallybadidea did you really have to quote the entire first op? Yes we know what the op is, this is what we are all commenting about unless otherwise tagged.

Especially to make a one line response!

YANBU, @Elsie256 . Someone I was at school with has refrained as a PA. Not sure if it’s just him but he’s putting a load of nonsense on social media about ‘five years of medical school crammed into two’ and put up a photo the other day saying ‘finished medical school’ which is quite embarrassing to read. I do wonder if it attracts a type of person who wanted to be a doctor but doesn’t have the requisite qualifications. It’s not good.

VivaVivaa · 12/08/2023 07:39

This is absolutely awful, both the way they introduced themselves and for their lack of concern. You should definitely complain.

VivaVivaa · 12/08/2023 07:43

off · 12/08/2023 07:14

All these people saying medic doesn't mean doctor, okay, but have you spent much time around doctors? They call themselves medics all the time. Maybe it's a hangover from medical school Grin

Agree with this. I’m an allied health care professional and ‘medic’ to me means doctor, at least in the hospital. It should be completely transparent. The person OP saw should have introduced themselves as their exact job roll, not an ambiguous phrase.

sgtz · 12/08/2023 07:53

Yes, complain. There was a case recently where a physician associate missed the diagnosis of a pulmonary embolism in a young girl in her 20s, who sadly died.

Annoyedwithmyself · 12/08/2023 07:55

Please do complain. It would be a very constructive thing to do as well as you deserving an apology.

It shouldn't be a case of 'closing ranks'. He has missed a bright red flag- unexplained weight loss. He needs extra training and i think his course leaders should know about this so they can really hammer it into future and current cohorts. I'm a 3rd year medical student and it is one of the first things we learn.

Staff should also introduce themselves clearly rather than gloss over the fact that they're not a doctor. Nobody is 'less than' but it simply isn't the same training and patients deserve clarity.

Hope you make a good recovery

Teddybear120 · 12/08/2023 07:59

I am sorry that this has happened to you.
Please put a formal complaint forward. It is important the practice know. You can also write to the integrated care board and if you don’t get a satisfactory response the Health Ombudsman.

The PA did not introduce themselves clearly. I’ve also heard them introduce themselves as clinicians, which while technically is true, is not a clear introduction either. People should know who they are seeing. I am a trainee GP (GP registrar)- I always introduce myself as ‘Dr Teddybear, I am a GP registrar, this means I am doing my speciality training to become a GP’. Some patients are satisfied with this explanation, others I have to explain a little more. It doesn’t take a lot of time and mostly patients are very receptive to it. There is a role for PAs in practice but unfortunately they are doing more and more and not necessarily recognising their limitations. However that is another thread.

Secondly yes they missed a red flag- the weight loss. We all make mistakes, doctors do to, we are only human. But this should also be highlighted and learnt from. It also goes to form a picture of this person’s clinical ability.

Again I am very sorry this happened to you and wish you the best for your treatment.

User32459678888888888 · 12/08/2023 07:59

Elsie256 · 11/08/2023 23:13

would you have also assumed doctor if someone introduced themselves as ‘one of the medics’?

Yes. That’s not ok.

Please make a formal complaint.

Scaraben · 12/08/2023 08:00

Definitely complain. I'm so sorry about your diagnosis, I hope you're getting the help you need now.

I'm a doctor and IMO this is beginning to become a massive problem, not in my specialty yet but in primary care and others and I see it happening for us soon too. There are lots of alarming threads on twitter (or whatever it's called now) about these people's scope of practice and lack of clarity about their actual role, supervision etc.

Endofroadinhs · 12/08/2023 08:03

I’ve been a nurse for 25 yrs and to me the term medic means a Doctor (anything from Students (although they are specifically referred to as Medical Students to avoid confusion!) up to Consultants. I would expect a PA to introduce themselves as such!

Sodthebloodypicnic · 12/08/2023 08:08

This is fucking diabolical

COMPLAIN

Coffeewinecake · 12/08/2023 08:09

ReliantRobyn · 12/08/2023 00:23

Medic doesn't mean doctor

Even doctors refer to themselves as medics - specifically physicians, to differentiate from surgeons

WeAreBorg · 12/08/2023 08:12

Needsomeadvice33 · 12/08/2023 03:10

Absolutely you should report as he blatantly lacks the knowledge of redflag cancer symptoms and this is just not good enough. The cockles is a dangerous attitude also. Was your urine even dipped, it must have had blood in it, was this just ignored?

Anyway I also want to say though, i am an ANP.
I start every single consultation with " Hi I'm insert my name, I'm one of the ANPs". I say this very coherently. I wear a bright red uniform (scotlands national ANP uniform) and the drs wear blue and green scrubs. I always wear a name tag which is large and has my name and ANP on it. I swear at least 95% of my consultations end with the patient standing up and saying " thank you Doctor". I started saying fully "advanced nurse practitioner" this did not reduce the number of patients referring to me as Dr. I often get thank you letters written and they always refer to me as being a dr, which worried me that people will think I misrepresent myself as a dr but my colleagues know I do not do this and have no intrest in such nonsense.
I will say I am a very experienced and thorough ANP who is genuinely very interested in my job and strive to fill my knowledge gaps always, so I do wonder if the assumption that I am a dr comes from the quality of my consultations but I genuinely cannot see how i can make it more obvious to patients.

Haha I remember taking my dear dad to hospital and he saw the consultant, who clearly explained she was the consultant and he still said “thank you nurse” at the end.

But yes, you should complain and I’m so sorry for your new diagnosis. GPs are so undervalued - the breadth of knowledge they require is vast and their salary is peanuts compared to sheer volume of work they do. Calling himself a medic is a probity issue and that alone warrants a complaint, let alone his dismissive communication style and failure to spot red flags.

Coffeewinecake · 12/08/2023 08:15

Elsie256 · 11/08/2023 23:04

phoned my GP to book an appointment, was told by reception I’d be seen by the emergency doctor covering.

i’ve really been struggling with really back pain and weight loss and was so grateful to have gotten an appointment. Arrived at the surgery and was called into the room and the guy introduces himself as ‘one of the medics’ , I go onto tell him my symptoms and he was very dismissive, told me I was probably overreacting and that I need not worry.

I felt something wasn’t right in how dismissive they were so I asked if I could see someone else at reception before I left the surgery.

the receptionist said ‘well if you’re still worried I can book you in with a doctor in a few days’. Turns out I’d seen a physician associate but they’d just introduced themselves as ‘one of the medics’ so I thought that meant doctor

finally got to see a doctor a few days later who looked very worried and referred me onwards straight away and very sadly been diagnosed with kidney cancer

I’m really upset about this initial visit to the GP and felt I was really misled especially as they didn’t properly introduce themselves and clearly didn’t have the appropriate clinical experience to recognise my symptoms were something more serious. should I be complaining?

You must report.

There is a lot on twitter about PAs misrepresenting themselves to the general public and not knowing their limits, which is a dangerous situation to find yourself in as a patient.

Polarbearkeeper · 12/08/2023 08:23

Very sorry re your diagnosis OP. I am a GP. IMO a ‘medic’ is a doctor. Allied health professionals are not ‘medics’ and most
importantly, should be introducing themselves properly (as we all should). This person did not have suitable clinical knowledge to assess you (unintentional weight loss and back are clear red flags) and I agree that you should complain.

Anothenamechange · 12/08/2023 08:24

Yes, complain loudly and vociferously. My parents GP has a PA who introduces himself as Dr when he has a PhD, not a medical doctor. This clown told my dad he had incurable throat cancer on the strength of 5 minutes appointment, sent him for weeks worth of tests. Dad actually had a mild throat infection. Thank god it was that way round but I don't trust PAs to diagnose.

My experience of the NHS has led me to never, never trust what you're told but to query everything and be prepared to forcefully advocate for yourself and your loved ones.

Anothenamechange · 12/08/2023 08:25

Yes, complain loudly and vociferously. My parents GP has a PA who introduces himself as Dr when he has a PhD, not a medical doctor. This clown told my dad he had incurable throat cancer on the strength of 5 minutes appointment, sent him for weeks worth of tests. Dad actually had a mild throat infection. Thank god it was that way round but I don't trust PAs to diagnose.

My experience of the NHS has led me to never, never trust what you're told but to query everything and be prepared to forcefully advocate for yourself and your loved ones.

Spacecowboys · 12/08/2023 08:30

Yes I would also write a letter to the gp practice. All health care professionals should make their role clear to patients. The physicians associate also needs to be made aware of the fact that they have missed a diagnosis- to have the opportunity to reflect on that, learn from it and receive further training and supervision.

Dragonsandcats · 12/08/2023 08:40

If I was told I had an appointment with the duty doctor, and they said Medic I would also assume that meant doctor. You definitely should complain. I’m glad you followed up for another opinion, what if you haven’t. Best wishes for your treatment.

Sleeepdeprived · 12/08/2023 08:43

I’m so sorry OP. I would have been the same - assumed he was a doctor. He should have been clearer, very misleading. Please do submit a complaint. Many people would just accept the dismissal from the physician’s associate leading to a much delayed cancer diagnosis.

Wishing you the best of luck with your treatment!

Strawfairytart · 12/08/2023 08:52

We're quickly heading for two (or more) tier healthcare.

Privately, you can get trained doctors. Experts.

On the NHS, you get often well meaning people who don't know that they don't know, with minimal training.

It happened a few years ago with psychiatry, and it's happened now with physical health.

Primary care is the most dangerous place to have undertrained clinicians.

Illbebythesea · 12/08/2023 08:55

I made a gp appointment recently (or what I thought was a gp appointment.) When I went into the room the guy was lovely & explained he was a PARAMEDIC quite clearly, & explained what he could and couldn’t do. He went and spoke to a gp when he was unsure on something. So yes this was handled terribly. I’m so sorry for your diagnoses OP thank goodness you pushed for another appointment. Definitely complain.