Unauthorised absences wtf are we supposed to do!

[dreamingbohemian]

Surely everyone knows that it's nearly impossible to get GP appointments these days. And surely everyone understands that sometimes your DC are too unwell to go to school but not unwell enough to get an emergency appointment.

But my DC's school are now saying any absence that doesn't have medical evidence will be unauthorised. They will only accept things you can get from a GP, like an appointment card or prescription.

So what are we meant to do??? We are finishing the year being this close to persistent absence, which doesn't seem fair. We can't help it if DC was ill a lot this year, but with routine bugs that a GP would never see him for or prescribe anything (including norovirus -- are we meant to send him in and spread it then?)

AIBU to think this makes no sense?

(not school bashing here, they say they are just following policy)

My eldest doesn’t have an EHCP, it has taken a year of waiting simply to be contacted by an Ed psychologist whose report will be the crux of the application in my area. So how do you suggest that he gets the support needed when all funding for the school support system goes to children with higher needs on paper?

Yes exactly, it's like the only thing that matters is that kids are physically present in school. It doesn't matter if they are actually learning, if students with special needs get adequate support, if teachers are paid and treated well, if schools have enough funding.

@JenWillsiam not at all.

I was just interested because the Idc-11 is your go to for what counts as a chronic condition, and means schools will never question absence related to that condition.

ODD & chronic anger and irritability are listed in the idc-11 as chronic conditions 🤷‍♀️ but they don’t count under your rules.

Funnily enough, hiccups, itching, headache and knee instability are also coded as chronic conditions in the idc-11… it must be a boon for all these feckless parents you know that they can just call in with a gp appointment card for their kid for itching, and never be questioned on attendance again!

It is wrong, but shows how some schools can be very unreasonable and I felt a bit bullied tbh. Still, we won :)

You don’t need an Ed psych report to apply.

Not the same thing. EBSA is not the same as a physical illness and ASD and ADHD are not long term chronic health conditions. They’re neuro disabilities. With the right support those children should be able to attend school. For medical conditions the same is not true. m

@JenWillsiam, why do you discount mental illness as a long-term health condition? EBSA is virtually always tied in to crippling anxiety, frequently linked with depression, self-harming, sleep problems, agoraphobia, OCD, and even suicidal tendencies.

It is also, of course, seen all too often in children with ASD and ADHD. Yes, with the right support it should not develop, and it should be possible to remediate it provided it doesn't become too severe. But too many schools can't or, occasionally, won't provide the right support - there is nothing much they can do if they do not have the right environment to deal with the child's sensory problems, if /he can't cope with frequent changes or the sheer numbers of people in school, or all the demands involved. Even moving the child to a special school providing the right environment never solves entrenched anxiety overnight. We really need much better mental health provision for children throughout the country.

The viewpoint that attendance doesn’t matter?

EBSA is the description of behaviour not a condition. And where did I discount mental health issues as a long term health condition?

6A02, where does it refer to ASD as a chronic condition?

https://icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en#/http%3a%2f%2fid.who.int%2ficd%2fentity%2f437815624

Chronic refers to something that continues over an extended period of time. A chronic condition is usually long-lasting and does not easily or quickly go away. Chronic is the opposite of acute.

my Chronic diseases are defined broadly as conditions that last 1 year or more and require ongoing medical attention or limit activities of daily living or both.

why are you so determined to insist ASD is not a ‘chronic condition’?

The NHS data dictionary definition.

A Long Term Physical Health Condition (also known as a Chronic Condition) is a health problem that requires ongoing management over a period of years or decades and is one that cannot currently be cured but can be controlled with the use of medication and/or other therapies.

It’s not a chronic condition or disease.

The issue is NOT going to be whether ASD or ADHD are ‘chronic’. They are. They are ongoing and not acute.

Debates may centre around whether they are health conditions or diseases or neurodevelopmental differences or some sort essential way of being or whatever. People will have different views there.

But the only person who seems to be denying that the condition - however you chose to frame it - is chronic seems to be the only person on the thread who is also claiming to have ‘full knowledge of ASD’.

ASD is not a physical health condition.

It is a chronic issue.

whether you agree it’s a disease or a health condition is different. But objectively neurodiversity conditions are chronic - they persist and people have to learn to live with them.

Nor is it controlled or managed with medication or other therapies.

You seem determined to grab a minor detail and miss the point. It’s the definition of chronic, whether the condition is physical, mental, neurodevelopmental or whatever.

It IS chronic. It persists and requires ongoing management. That’s why it’s a disability in law.

I said at the beginning it’s not a chronic condition or disease. It is not.

if I said it was not a mental health issue that would also not be the same as saying it’s not a health issue.

You’re derailing the thread whilst arguing with me about something that is irrelevant and that you’ve not understood.

Sadly this is true. In reception my daughter was very ill and we ended up needing evidence. But they accepted, for example, a dated video taken on the phone of you taking a temperature to prove a fever, or a photo of chicken pox spots. Where we had viral wheeze episodes we had a print out to demonstrate a&e attendance and that sort of thing.
Can you ask your school what kind of evidence they will accept on file?

What on Earth? There’s absolutely no way I’d be videoing me taking my child’s temperature - absolute madness. If I say my child’s too unwell to be at school, she’s too unwell.

Jesus wept!

The person derailing the thread is YOU. All because you are utterly obsessed with a minor detail and are determined not to see the big picture or listen to anyone else.

we love our teachers, we are related to education one way or another and never any absence has been regarded with mistrust. It is what you exude to the school with how you are, what is your behaviour, your attitude to your kids schooling. Does not mean i will take them out of school to go to Disney Paris lol.

@JenWillsiam go back and read my post love- what I said was that your claim that any chronic condition as defined by the idc 11 is accepted at school as a reason for persistent absence and evidence won’t be requested, is WRONG. There are many chronic health conditions which would not be considered acceptable reasons not to be in school- chronic hiccups for example.

What you are saying is wrong. It is actually, factually, wrong.

As an aside, you don’t actually understand the purpose, use or scope of the idc; which is probably why you aren’t able to understand this issue.

You’re still not listening or responding to any evidence provided by people. It’s very strange.

No-one has said that attendance doesn’t matter. That’s a big leap.

People are saying that the focus on attendance to this level is disproportionate - school policies that are not supported by the NHS and cause more difficulties than they were put in place to solve, and are not realistic or supportive of students and their families. Can you see that?

Or you going to spend the whole day cherry picking bits of people’s posts to query whilst simultaneously putting your hands over your ears and saying you don’t believe the answers or no one has provided examples (when they have)? Bizarre.

I am reminding myself that ASD runs in families.

The problem is that education ministers and DfE have grabbed on to attendance metrics as something they can monitor and obsess about. This means they can convince themselves that they’re brilliantly ‘data-led’ but without having to think carefully about the actual problems (and it is multiple problems) that might manifest in children having lower attendance rates at school.

And they pick ‘solutions’ to the badly formatted problem that at best don’t solve anything and may be even worse.

Sometimes people have a shitty spell for getting ill. At one point in my secondary school career I had less than 70% attendance. I was suffering with regular and recurrent bouts of (acute!) tonsillitis. I had to put up with this for 3 years before the NHS decided to remove my tonsils.

Focusing on the attendance level was missing the point entirely. And would have created even more, completely unnecessary, stress for my mother - who was trying to hold down a FT job despite me being off school 1/3 of the time for years.

@SquitMcJit I actually don’t think Jenwill is capable of a higher level of understanding or discussion. She seems to have real difficulty grasping complex concepts so reverts to one line repetition in the hopes of brow beating people into agreeing with her. I think that’s probably why she can’t understand that different people have different experiences of education.