Unauthorised absences wtf are we supposed to do!

[dreamingbohemian]

Surely everyone knows that it's nearly impossible to get GP appointments these days. And surely everyone understands that sometimes your DC are too unwell to go to school but not unwell enough to get an emergency appointment.

But my DC's school are now saying any absence that doesn't have medical evidence will be unauthorised. They will only accept things you can get from a GP, like an appointment card or prescription.

So what are we meant to do??? We are finishing the year being this close to persistent absence, which doesn't seem fair. We can't help it if DC was ill a lot this year, but with routine bugs that a GP would never see him for or prescribe anything (including norovirus -- are we meant to send him in and spread it then?)

AIBU to think this makes no sense?

(not school bashing here, they say they are just following policy)

I’m not assuming anything. I am observing that you are unable to de centre and accept that your experience isn’t the universal experience.

Not at all. Neuro disabilities and chronic conditions are not the same thing. As I’ve explained.

@JenWillsiam ffs go away.

The way you change what you claim your argument is every 5 minutes is really boring.

First it was that children with chronic illness/conditions don’t get asked for evidence by school- when it was pointed out this was wrong it was…

Well it’s good to send these letters anyway because they make parents get evidence or send their kids to school more- when it was pointed out that that is incorrect you went back to your first (false) claim 🤦‍♀️

You then tried to assert that other people think asd is the same as a physical illness- when it was pointed out no one thinks that but there are elements of the experience when dealing with schools that overlap- you apparently know this can not possibly be the case (because your experience is the only experience?!)

Now you are back on the ‘well anyway you think autism and lupus are the same’

On top of that you have repeatedly said that ND isn’t ‘chronic’ and doesn’t affect attendance. Ableist and stupid in equal measures.

I don't worry about stuff like this. If I deem my children too unwell to go to school then I'll keep them off, I dont care what school says. I don't buy into all this 'proof' nonsense either. My children, my choice.
As it happens they are all doing well at school and are thriving academically, despite the usual bugs doing the rounds during the primary school years (especially in winter!) and the subsequent time off they had to have.
I just don't see the point in worrying myself sick about it - if they're ill, they're ill. Makes no difference to me whether it goes down as authorised or unauthorised, and I don't ask - my priority is their health.

I actually haven’t.

I said when children have chronic illnesses or conditions you don’t get asked for evidence. I was told you do and adhd / ASD were given as examples. I pointed out these are not chronic illnesses or conditions. Because they are not. No other examples have been provided.

Secondly I said parents of persistent absentees should be written to. They should. Evidence should be provided. But you wouldn’t write to parents of children with chronic conditions asking for evidence because they will have it.

Thirdly I didn’t say other people think that, people literally did give ASD and adhd (including you) as examples of chronic conditions. Again they are not.

Forthly ASD is not a chronic condition. I provided you with a link. I did not state it wouldn’t affect attendance. I said if children are well supported it won’t always affect attendance. With chronic conditions they always will due to ongoing treatment, flares, bouts of illness. That is not always the case for ASD. And absences related to ASD are normally due to comorbid issues. Not ASD itself. I never actual introduced neuro disabilities into this. Someone else did. My point was and remains that for children with chronic conditions evidence is not required. Evidence is required for persistent absence without explanation. Missing 10% or more of schooling with random bouts of illness is not acceptable.

Finally, calling me ableist whilst using an ableist slur is a bit rich.

@JenWillsiam ok sweet, have it your way.

I didn’t realise you had an intimate knowledge of the behaviour of every school- is that in one specific country or is it the uk as a whole?

Whats weird though is all the times I’ve been asked for evidence of medical care/appointment/flare up of my kids chronic illness? Even though I have now accepted your assertion that there is absolute dichotomy between the physical and the mental? Neurological?!, his illness still fits under your list of chronic ‘conditions’…. Maybe I’ve accidentally sent him to work instead of school? Or prison? Anyway, my bad I’m sure.

Actually, come to think of it, I’d better go back to my own specialists and explain to them. And we had better inform the Royal College of Psychiatrists that their ongoing research into the (physical) deficit of neurotransmitters is wrong- adhd isn’t a physical condition! Will you call them or shall I?

Yes I think basically this is what I will try to do -- I mean, this is what I was doing before, but I was quite rattled by the school saying we were at risk of being fined! I just do not accept that at all, but I've been reassured by this thread that it is highly unlikely we could get fined for this.

I will keep much better track of things next year and just be prepared in case they hassle us, I've had a lot of good advice on this thread about how to respond and possible options for evidence.

It's a bit depressing to see some ablist posts here and people saying it's ok to harass and fine parents who are just trying to take care of their kids.

But really thank you everyone for all the great advice and reassurance, this thread has been super helpful for me.

I said if children are well supported it won’t always affect attendance.

Bullshit 😂. I have two sons, one diagnosed ASD and awaiting adhd, the other one the other way around. The first is as well supported as any parent could wish for, they do amazingly. His attendance for the year is dire, because he’s autistic. Reduced time table, days where meltdowns means that getting him into school are impossible, nights where he’s refused to sleep meaning he can’t cope with school the next day, far more prone to accidents and illness - ASD/adhd children can have all the support money can buy, they’re still more likely to miss school than a child without a lifelong disability. And I’ve already given examples on thread of why my son has had low enough attendance to be sent a naughty letter from the council. Two different mainstream schools by the way, two different experience of neurodiversity and getting through the school system.

The above doesn’t even take into account major ND burnout. I missed about 60% of my final year of school because of this.

Again, ASD does not fit the criteria of a chronic condition. “Autism” is not a reason that would be accepted for missing school.

What does it matter? Absence is absence, it all counts the same

With this computer says no attitude, I’m guessing you are the sort of person who makes these shite policies. And then refuses to listen to why they’re shite

Exactly what I was thinking

On whose say so? Yours? Is this expertise or your own opinion?

@JenWillsiam are you a school receptionist? You very much read as a Classic Jobsworth Receptionist. Think they’re the ones who are gatekeepers to The Rules whilst not having the slightest idea of policy or procedures.

@JenWillsiam see the dictionary for the definition of chronic.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/autism-spectrum-disorders

See the world health organisation for evidence that autism is a ‘condition’.

https://www.thinkingautism.org.uk/autism-chronic-health-condition/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7335278/

See above for information about how autism interacts with/influences physical health.

btw why don’t you ever respond, when it’s pointed out to you, that your assertion that schools never ask for evidence of (what you recognise as) chronic conditions like arthritis, lupus etc is wrong?

@Gerrataere I was thinking that. Although that wouldn’t explain why she thinks all schools behave in exactly the same way.

I find it really interesting to read about the policies here as I'm not from the UK but from another European country. When I was in school (and as far as I know it's still the case) the parent just called and let them know you were sick. I think uou needed a note if it was for an extended period but otherwise not. If the parent said you were sick they trusted that.
Has it always been the case here that evidence is needed every time?

I think it would be worth speaking to local councillor and I’m sure the primary care network (PCN) would object to this as they will not have the capacity to see every child who is not well enough to go to school. The majority of children off school will be unwell enough to not go to school but have symptoms that can be managed at home.

I would email them a photo of the vomit.

Not really but I mean wtf do they want you to do? I say that as someone who works in schools. The NHS is on it's bloody knees you can't go to the gp for minor self limiting illnesses some schools need to get real.

This is such a load of rubbish isn't it? When my son was small, he had a condition that meant he would sometimes start vomiting and not stop, until he was admitted to hospital and put on a drip. The vomiting caused a hiatus hernia. If he vomited in the morning it was impossible to know if it was one off or something more serious. So I erred on the side of caution until I got a letter about his attendance which threatened a visit from a council officer. I had phoned every time he was absent and the school knew about his condition. They stopped bothering me after the first few times I took him in and he vomited all over the classroom. But it shouldn't have come to that and a bit of common sense and understanding would have gone a long way to helping a really stressful situation.

If your child is genuinely ill I really wouldn't worry. Mine had a major illness in the Autumn term one year and we got actual letters regularly throughout the year because obviously their absence was below 90%. You won't get fined although you might get SS contacting you if there's a pattern such as being ill on a certain day of the week as it can suggest your child is missing school for other reasons.

Your school are being unfair if it's just childhood illness as you're not entitled to sick notes. You also don't get appointment letters anymore. I guess you could ring up 101 when they're sick as it will get logged with the school...

I think it depends on the frequency of the illness. your son seems to be unwell a lot (as opposed to a one-off day) so presumably you’d be able to get a GP appointment to cover some of those spells of illnesses as it concerns several days? It’s hard to get an GP appointment as a one-off, but I’m usually able to get an appointment after 2 days of trying to call at 8am. By the second morning I’m hammering my GP’s number! I’m not judging you btw but I do think you may have been able to get some medical support for some of these occasions. Anyone would question 90% annual attendance to work or education with no medical evidence

Kids get ill, and mostly with probably viruses, which the GP can do nothing about. I would never waste the GPs time if my kid had a normal illness. And if the school don't like it then tough. My kids are not going to school if they are not well. And I would decide if my kid is well enough or not.

Good god do they really think Gp's have capacity to write a note every time a child is off sick with a temperature or norovirus?

Total waste of GP time