Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that a 'bedroom' without a window cannot be legally described as one?

190 replies

ABedroomByAnyOtherName · 11/06/2023 12:25

We've had a holiday booked since last year with a UK Holiday Cottage company. Lovely cottage, three bedrooms, great reviews on the website.

I paid the final balance this week and thought I'd have a look at the more recent reviews. Two new reviews point out that the third bedroom does not in fact have a window, it is just a windowless storage room with a bed inside.

This is ridiculous, surely? We need three bedrooms as there will be me and DH plus two teens who will definitely not share. We have paid a significant amount of money for three bedrooms - none of us will sleep in a windowless room, especially not in the summer!

After a quick check on the internet, most seem to agree that a room without a window cannot be legally described as a bedroom under UK law and can definitely not be advertised as one for renting out. This is due to fire safety regulations, as there needs to be at least two exits in the case of a fire.

I emailed the company saying this and have had a reply today to say it IS a bedroom and as such wasn't misdescribed, so they don't see an issue.
I'm so annoyed! We have paid a lot for what's basically a two bedroom cottage unsuitable for our needs, how on earth can they justify this?!

Can anyone help point me to the particular piece of legislation/building regs that confirm this? Obviously, lots of planning/building trade websites mentioned this, but I'd rather have a link to a government site to support this when I email back. I'd be so grateful for any help!

Ugh. I am so peeved. I'd rather they gave me a full refund now, as it's so dishonest that I resent giving them any of my money...any advice/pointers gratefully received!

OP posts:
caringcarer · 11/06/2023 15:25

@ABedroomByAnyOtherName if you give them option of giving refund but they do not take that option then you only have 3 choices. 1 go on holiday anyway. 2 refuse to go on holiday and book somewhere else but you will pay twice. 3 do an online claim for small claims court.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 11/06/2023 15:25

I suspect you won’t actually get as far as small claims but thats the message I’d send. I’d be prepared to go there though!

Original poster
ABedroomByAnyOtherName · 11/06/2023 15:26

LizzieBananas · 11/06/2023 13:01

Heaven help you when said teens are looking to move out.

Signed, someone whose bathroom doesn't have a window.

Lizzie, this is an ENTIRELY different situation - a holiday cottage actually advertised as three bedrooms when it isn't, not a bathroom in a flat - I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a)what was advertised and b) a bedroom that adheres to current UK legal/safety guidelines for bedrooms.

And I also had a bathroom in my first flat that didn't have a window 🤷‍♀️But it was shown clearly in the description and photos before I bought it, so no misrepresentation.

OP posts:
Fifthtimelucky · 11/06/2023 15:31

Any holiday lets should have an up to date fire risk assessment. It might be worth asking to see the one for the property in question, and say you are particularly interested to see what it says about the windowless 'bedroom'.

It could help strengthen your case if they don't have one, refuse to show it to you, or haven't adequately addressed the risks.

Savoury · 11/06/2023 15:33

I had the same last week in the south west: a two bed apartment with parking which we need.

In fact the second bedroom had a window onto a hall (so switching on and off lights woke them up) and was too high to get out of. It was also tiny - nowhere to open a small bag or suitcase. The parking did exist but blocked a fire escape and was too narrow given the parking on the street to swing into. The advertised restaurant and bar didn’t exist which was fine as we wouldn’t have used it.

This was booking.com. We complained to the manager who we don’t think was even in the country. Annoying!

Original poster
ABedroomByAnyOtherName · 11/06/2023 15:33

Thank you so much to everyone for your replies and sage advice!

I'll try and answer specific questions in a second, but just thought I'd update a little - I've just filled DH in, as he was working earlier. He says he knows and works with a fair few people who are highly regarded in the fire safety side of things and is sure that if he contacts them on Monday, they'll be able to provide him with the exact regs we need to quote to the company.

He's just as irritated as me - I'd really like to get a full refund now and just try and book somewhere else...if we end up actually going, I'll really resent one of us having to sleep on the sofa after paying out £1.2k.

OP posts:
Original poster
ABedroomByAnyOtherName · 11/06/2023 15:36

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 11/06/2023 13:04

YANBU. Bedrooms in the UK should always have a window.

It's a huge fire risk for starters.

"Building regulations in the UK require all bedrooms to have windows. These are primarily meant to lower the risk of injury in case of a fire. They serve as ventilation for the room and also help to provide emergency exits. While the government can’t stop you from using windowless bedrooms, you will get into legal hot water if you rent the room to lodgers or tenants as a bedroom. When selling or renting out the house, you can market any windowless rooms as studios, playrooms, home gyms, or even home offices."

https://buildsafe.co.uk/building-regulation-for-windows-in-bedrooms/#:~:text=Building%20regulations%20in%20the%20UK%20require%20all%20bedrooms%20to%20have,help%20to%20provide%20emergency%20exits.

Thank you! I came across that website when I was doing a bit of research before posting. Hopefully when they are faced with a number of links all saying the same thing, they will reconsider.

OP posts:
Original poster
ABedroomByAnyOtherName · 11/06/2023 15:37

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 11/06/2023 13:09

I'd be asking if their insurer knows they are using a windowless room as a bedroom.

A very good point, Bernadette - I think we'll be asking if we can see the fire risk assessment, too.

OP posts:
MeeThree · 11/06/2023 15:40

I would also ask for a refund. Beware, I had a similar situation recently and had to do a charge back on my card and it's still not resolved. Apparently there is a massive backlog of unresolved travel requests for refunds at the moment!

Original poster
ABedroomByAnyOtherName · 11/06/2023 15:40

CastleTurrets · 11/06/2023 13:15

As PP have mentioned, the comparison to a toilet does not hold any weight. Typically downstairs toilets (under the stairs for example) have an extractor fan and possibly no window. However, while using a toilet you are conscious and only using it for a few minutes. I have no issue with this.

However, in a bedroom, you are unconscious for at least 6 or so hours and massively at risk if a fire breaks out which prevents you from being able to leave via the door. For that reason alone I would refuse to sleep in a windowless room or have my children sleep in one.

That's before even getting into the discomfort of using the room (lack of any natural light, ventilation, temperature control etc).

I'd 100% fight this OP.

Thank you, that's exactly how I feel about it! It's so frustrating, I feel it is really dishonest to omit mentioning there is no window in the description - there is absolutely no way anyone will be sleeping in that room.

OP posts:
Original poster
ABedroomByAnyOtherName · 11/06/2023 15:43

ToeJamming · 11/06/2023 13:20

What floor is the room on?

'A room where the only escape route
is through another room is termed an ‘inner room’. The occupants of an inner room could be at risk if a fire starts in
the outer room (often referred to as an ‘access room’). Although this arrangement should be avoided wherever possible,
it is acceptable where the inner room is a kitchen, laundry or utility room, bathroom, WC or shower room and where steps have been taken to mitigate the risk

Inner rooms should not be used for any form of sleeping accommodation unless the rooms are on the ground floor and the rooms have direct access to a door or “escape window” that can be used by the occupants to reach a place of safety clear of the accommodation.

Escape windows on the ground floor can only be considered acceptable if they are easily accessed and provide a clear opening of sufficient size to allow able-bodied persons to escape in the event of a fire in the access room. Mobility impaired people should not be accommodated in rooms where the means of escape is reliant on escape windows.'^
^
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentt^data/file/1147723/A/Aguideetotomakinggyourursmalllpaying-guest-accommodationonsafeefromom_fire.pdff

It's on the first floor, so according to your info it looks like the exemption wouldn't apply. Thank you for that!

OP posts:
BerriesPineCones · 11/06/2023 15:43

I wonder if this is an issue with some Premier inns. They have windows but you can't open them which could be a fire risk. I miss being able to open the window and hear birds sing when I stay in one!

Original poster
ABedroomByAnyOtherName · 11/06/2023 15:45

WonderDays · 11/06/2023 13:24

I found this on the internet.

Building Regulation for Windows in Bedrooms
Many buildings in the UK have at least one room that doesn’t have a window. You may be tempted to rent out this room as an extra bedroom or include it when counting the bedrooms in the house to increase value upon sale. However, while it can technically serve as a sleeping place, such a room wouldn’t qualify as a bedroom as per the UK building regulations. In fact, marketing such rooms to lodgers as bedrooms is against the law and can get you into trouble. Without a window, you should label these rooms as studios, playrooms, or home offices.
All bedrooms in the UK must have a window that complies with the specified building regulations. In this article we look at building regulations for windows in bedrooms

Thanks WonderDays, I saw that too - it honestly appears as if they cannot describe it as a bedroom from that excerpt.

OP posts:
Original poster
ABedroomByAnyOtherName · 11/06/2023 15:46

ToeJamming · 11/06/2023 13:27

Show quote history

Thank you @ToeJamming , that is extremely helpful!

OP posts:
Original poster
ABedroomByAnyOtherName · 11/06/2023 15:47

OnTheTuftedWilton · 11/06/2023 13:34

Ask for a copy of the Fire Risk Assessment and details of their insurers, their insurers may well be interested

We definitely will, thank you.

OP posts:
LakieLady · 11/06/2023 15:49

Simonjt · 11/06/2023 13:11

I’ve stayed in hotel rooms that don’t have windows, the ones that do rarely open.

Posting regulation for residential rental is a bit pointless, the regulations for rental properties are not the same for holiday lets, hotels etc.

Hotels have very strict rules re fire alarms, fire doors, extinguishers. escape routes etc so are safe for longer in the event of fire than the average room in a domestic setting.

I'm sure that an upstairs bedroom in an ordinary dwelling has to have a window, but couldn't swear that the same is true of a ground floor room.

Original poster
ABedroomByAnyOtherName · 11/06/2023 15:49

fyn · 11/06/2023 13:43

I’ve stayed in windowless, underground hotel rooms so I don’t think you will find what you are looking for!

Were they described accurately when you booked them as windowless, underground rooms fyn? If so, no issues - this hasn't been accurately described.

OP posts:
CaroleSinger · 11/06/2023 15:50

I've slept on a cruise ship before where the bedroom had no windows. Mind you it was below the water line.

CaroleSinger · 11/06/2023 15:54

How long are any of you actually going to be spending in this windowless room anyway? Surely this isn't where you're going to be spending the entire holiday.

TheApplianceofScience · 11/06/2023 15:55

I would not be best pleased.....

Original poster
ABedroomByAnyOtherName · 11/06/2023 15:57

JMSA · 11/06/2023 13:58

My property was marketed as a 2 bed when I bought it. It does have a 3rd single bedroom with en-suite!
The bedroom doesn't have a window but the adjoining en-suite does. It still had to be marketed as a 2 bed.
The owners have been disingenuous.
I personally wouldn't cancel as I'm sure one of the teens wouldn't mind - it's a place to lay their head, at the end of the day. And if the property is amazing in other ways, then you could be cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I would, however, ask for a discount.

That's exactly it, it's very disingenuous. And it is a very nice cottage with lots of the other things we are looking for...but I would have ruled it out straight away had I known about the lack of window. We've stayed in all sorts of places on holiday in the UK and some were definitely better than others (the haunted/creepy but beautiful church was a particular stand out 😬) but all had three bedrooms as it's something we just don't compromise on 🤷‍♀️

I do know what you mean, but it feels like it's the principle of the thing now - in one of the reviews, the chap said he contacted the owner to complain once he realised, as he was unhappy about it and apparently the owner thought it was totally fine and his complaint was 'trivial'. So they know it's misleading and still kept the description the same.

OP posts:
ThursdayFreedom · 11/06/2023 15:59

CaroleSinger · 11/06/2023 15:50

I've slept on a cruise ship before where the bedroom had no windows. Mind you it was below the water line.

😂😂😂😂

id have been sleeping in deck, that would make me feel very claustrophobic

Original poster
ABedroomByAnyOtherName · 11/06/2023 16:00

LizzieBananas · 11/06/2023 14:04

My own... The PPs implying I was exaggerating about my own windows.

Did you not look at pictures on the website, OP? @ABedroomByAnyOtherName

Show quote history

Yes Lizzie, of course I did - very carefully as I don't like nasty surprises. The thing is, they were very careful not to specify which bedroom was which in the photos (lots of holiday rentals do eg bedroom 1, bedroom 2 etc) so there is a photo of the bed, but not of what's behind the photographer iyswim?

OP posts:
loislovesstewie · 11/06/2023 16:00

I was just going to say that I would be very claustrophobic in a room without a window. And, no, it's not a bedroom, it's storage space.

Original poster
ABedroomByAnyOtherName · 11/06/2023 16:02

TeaKitten · 11/06/2023 14:08

I don’t see why that means OP should have to tolerate a windowless bedroom on a holiday she’s paid good money for. You living in a crap flat doesn’t mean OPs expectations are unrealistic. The two things are not related.

Show quote history

Thank you TeaKitten, I agree!

OP posts: