To book a holiday before telling work?

[Buddythecat1]

Moot point as it is already booked.
Manager over heard me telling another colleague that I'd booked a family holiday and was told in no uncertain terms that I must request the time from work before ever booking something.

A bit taken abback because I've never heard of this and it's not in my contract either.

The holiday in question is 16 months away 😂 is my manager in the correct?

I wouldn't book a holiday before gettinh annual leave authorised cause i wouldn't want to risk the annual peave being rejected.

I would email now and request the dates and just say as online system isn't open yet

They cant deny the leave as a total for the year but they can deny certain days off for business reasons, if someone else is already off etc.

Managers can also cancel your agreed annual leave as well

@Aprilx disagree. My contract says - see last sentence:

"Proposed holiday dates must normally be agreed at least two weeks in advance with your Manager
or the person to whom you normally report. Your completed holiday request form should be
submitted to your manager via ADP. Please note that your leave must be agreed prior to you
making any firm holiday commitments and/or arrangements."

It is pretty standard wording in my industry and words to that effect have been in every contract I've had.

It's also in the contract I have with my daughter's nanny [note I didn't draft that contract it was a standard one / wording received from the payroll company we use that manages the agreement].

My contract says nothing about requesting leave before ever booking something
Nor does the annual leave policy, which I asked to see before I left this evening

@TheThinkingGoblin ... a person has the right to take annual leave, but not when they take it. An employer can refuse leave if the time is not suitable for the company. So they can deny your leave.

I've got an interview next week for a school based job so if I got it, holidays won't be an issue

This is 100% illegal.

Seriously, how do you not understand this?

The reality is that if you don't get it approved before booking it, you run the risk of it not being approved and you not being able to go.

It's quite simple, if the system is not open then you just get it okayed by email and put it in when you can

Whether you agree with it or not it's common sense to protect yourself

Nobody to email, the place doesn't have internet communication 🤦‍♀️

@TheThinkingGoblin because this is what it states on the government's website about annual leave and booking annual leave...

Booking time off
The general notice period for taking leave is at least twice as long as the amount of leave a worker wants to take, plus 1 day. For example, a worker would give 3 days’ notice for 1 day’s leave.
An employer can refuse a leave request or cancel leave but they must give as much notice as the amount of leave requested, plus 1 day. For example, an employer would give 11 days’ notice if the worker asked for 10 days’ leave.
If the contract says something different about the notice a worker or employer should give, what’s in the contract will apply.
Although employers can refuse to give leave at a certain time, they cannot refuse to let workers take the leave at all.

But - you've booked your holiday, and will at some point in the future put in a request for annual leave.

If it gets declined - you will say what? Oh well, tough on me. Or, but you're being horrible, I've already booked a holiday!

Your manager clearly doesn't want to be put in a spot where they either have to tell you you're losing the holiday you've already paid for, or let you go and cause problems for themself.

It would have been so easy to say to them - I want to do this, that will mean I book x off, I can't do that till April so can I tell you now & you are aware? Would've taken 5 minutes. "I didn't think" is so frustrating to hear, when it's too late...

No. It's not.

https://www.acas.org.uk/checking-holiday-entitlement/asking-for-and-taking-holiday

Well then write it on a bit of paper and get them to sign it, or at least have a conversation

I didn't even know this was a thing
New manager and only was made aware today.
The business has only been going for 3 weeks
Nobody else in the business has ever heard of it either and they've been transferred from places 4 hours away

It's completely legal. You're entitled to leave, they don't have to let you choose when it is. Some firms have set shutdown weeks where the whole company is on leave. There is nothing illegal about a company dictating when leave can be taken, or denying leave requests that don't fit business need, as long as the employee can take leave at another time.

You'd do it out of courtesy if nothing else. Let's put the boot on the other foot, you employer has a massive project going live next year. It effects you, so you'd expect to get a heads up correct?

Of course they can't insist you don't book anything before getting the time off, that would be absurd.

But what they don't have to do is agree to a holiday request, so you may end up with a holiday you've paid for, but no time off. I guess they just don't want people saying "but you have to let me have it off, I've already booked it!"

In all honesty, no I wouldn't want to be told 16 months in advance. I'd forget

The manager is correct. The amount of annual leave is either in your contract or the statutory minimum. But the employer does not have to allow it at a time of the employee's choosing. The employee has to request the dates they want from the employer (not "tell" them).

Of course you should tell your manager ahead of time unless its an emergency.

But these things are only designed to smooth over the transactions between people.

You 100% do not need to get formal permission (unless like I said you are in a role that is literally life and death)

You tell them 1 month ahead of time for a 2 week holiday?

Thats perfectly fine.

Obviously, telling them 1 day before a proposed 2 week holiday is unprofessional (unless its a serious emergency like illness of funeral).

But that is not what OP did.

She is literally telling them a year ahead of time.

And the new "manager" who clearly could not find his behind with a map has to state the classic textbook "I have no idea how to manage people" reply.

Newsflash to everybody here: people do not need to be infantilised. There is no "legal" requirement for permission, what is found in the gov site is advise on what "best practice" should be, which is obviously totally fine. I happen to agree with it as well.

Seems you need to work on the old memory then OP. Like when your boss doesn't remember your late holiday request.

I'm aware of that but surely if there is nothing noted in your contract about not booking anything before approval, nor is there nothing in their policy then what? I'm obviously going to give them enough notice but ive never heard a rule about absolutely not booking a thing before getting time off

This is splitting some mighy fine hairs.

You "tell them" by requesting leave via the IT portal for it.

Stfu 😂😂🤦‍♀️ there's no way I'd remember the finer details of a project, in 16 months time! I'd be surprised if anybody did

@TheThinkingGoblin the point is that she didn't tell the manager 16 months ahead of time. She booked and didn't tell them. By not telling them and then telling them closer to the time she runs the risk of finding she can't have the time off, because the employer can refuse the leave of for example it leaves them short staffed.