Page 20 | The People demand that the Boats are Stopped.

noblegiraffe · 2023-05-09T12:07:58+00:00

I keep reading about the Tory government working hard to deliver the people's priorities: "Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Government are focused on five immediate priorities. We will halve inflation, grow the economy, reduce debt, cut NHS waiting lists and stop the boats." Halve inflation (will happen anyway), grow the economy (vague), reduce debt (vague), cut NHS waiting lists (maybe by paying nurses and doctors more?), stop the boats (what?). Maybe it's just where I live, but I'm not seeing this immediate urgent need to "stop the boats". It's certainly nowhere near my top 5 priorities for the government to be immediately tackling. If it was, I'd probably look at creating legal routes for genuine asylum seekers as a first step rather than shipping them to Rwanda. Is it in your top 5 urgent government priorities? Are they speaking to the people and I've just completely missed it? YABU: Stopping the boats is in my top 5 government priorities. YANBU: I'm more concerned about something else and would bump Stop the Boats down the list.

beguilingeyes · 10/05/2023 05:19

Nat6999 · 10/05/2023 01:18

His top 5 priorities should be

1 Cost of living
2 Health service
3 Housing
4 Education
5 Social care

No matter what he says, the cost of living problem hasn't been solved. Even with the 10.1% increase on welfare benefits food has gone up 16%, Energy price guarantee has gone up £500, things like broadband, landlines, & mobile phone charges have gone up, petrol & diesel have too. Wages aren't keeping track with inflation & haven't been for years, so even if everyone got a 10.1% increase this year their pay still won't have kept up with inflation in real terms.

The health service needs a massive injection not only of cash but in staff, we need more doctors, nurses, radiographers, physiotherapists etc. We have a crisis in NHS dentistry, too many dentists are leaving the NHS because the contracts just don't pay enough for the treatment. It needs a total rethink of the contract & enough dentists to guarantee everyone who earns less than £50k can get an NHS dentist.

We need more social housing, if the country could build as many council homes as it did when the country was practically bankrupt after WW2, why can't it now?

We need more teachers & the government need to get to the root cause of why so many teachers are leaving the profession. Schools need to be given the money to improve both the levels of teaching but the buildings themselves. You shouldn't have to move house purely to get into catchment for a good school, very school should be a good school. Ofsted needs to be changed putting pressure on schools & staff when they turn up is not the way to improve schools.

Social care should be run in partnership with the NHS, it needs a massive injection of funding, bring back home Social care services to council control, no care agencies that cream off profit, pay care staff a proper wage & make being a carer a profession with proper training & exams. It would be a good thing if there could be an apprenticeship programme to bring in new carers, 3 years training with basic nursing skills, teach the importance of treating the person who is being cared for as a human being, not just someone who you fling a sandwich & tablets to then run off to the next client. Pay carers a wage that covers moving from client to client & have more carers so that they have chance to build a relationship with their clients & time to care for them properly. Stop the practice of getting clients up at going on for lunch time & putting them to bed at 6.00pm, increasing the number of carers would help this & reduce the number of clients per carer. If Social care was run properly it would stop bed blocking & improve the flow in hospitals.

I think I love you. Please will you run for office?

Doodledeedum · 10/05/2023 05:22

YANBU

beguilingeyes · 10/05/2023 05:22

Brittl · 10/05/2023 01:06

I do wonder why people have no problem with Japan and South Korea desiring strict homogeneity but in the west its considered very bad for people to want a national identity?

Maybe it's because we've never had it and it's unattainable? We're a mongrel nation.
How are you going to achieve it? I might be get away with it as I'm pretty much Welsh but do we get rid of everyone who came over after the Normans?

Museya15 · 10/05/2023 06:04

So you’re all bleating on about the nhs and education but last year alone it cost the taxpayer £1.5 billion to look after asylum seekers. So I guess you’re happy for the money to be spent on this area rather than your little Josh and lotties education.

Emotionalstorm · 10/05/2023 06:18

Stopping the boats and immigration is my number one priority and should be the number one priority of any party I vote for.

verdantverdure · 10/05/2023 06:26

Museya15 · 10/05/2023 06:04

So you’re all bleating on about the nhs and education but last year alone it cost the taxpayer £1.5 billion to look after asylum seekers. So I guess you’re happy for the money to be spent on this area rather than your little Josh and lotties education.

You must be really annoyed at the Tory government for building up such a backlog of asylum applications then? These costs would be massively reduced if they didn't take so long to get round to it.

And fuming that Tory government policy forces most asylum seekers to actually come here in order to apply at all. They wouldn't cost money to house if they applied online from elsewhere.

And furious that the Tories use asylum seeker accommodation as another way to profiteer from the public purse by transfering taxpayers money to their mates at Serco or similar.

verdantverdure · 10/05/2023 06:27

Emotionalstorm · 10/05/2023 06:18

Stopping the boats and immigration is my number one priority and should be the number one priority of any party I vote for.

Not a Tory voter then, I assume.

Or a Brexit voter.

verdantverdure · 10/05/2023 06:30

Museya15 · 10/05/2023 06:04

So you’re all bleating on about the nhs and education but last year alone it cost the taxpayer £1.5 billion to look after asylum seekers. So I guess you’re happy for the money to be spent on this area rather than your little Josh and lotties education.

We lost 9 billion in tax revenue because the civil servants who worked on tax evasion were diverted to Brexit.

(Also, our pandemic response was even more shit than it needed to be because Boris Johnson diverted the civil servants who look out for such threats to working on a plan to do Brexit.)

LookingforMaryPoppins · 10/05/2023 06:31

peonyoalace · 10/05/2023 05:14

It is important to me. I think it's all gone about rather strangely but something needs to be done. I'm from a coastal town in SE that has been ripped apart by more and more people coming in with no regard whatsoever for their effect on the local town. And worse, the men that follow women around shouting sexy sexy out the bedsits which are forever growing in numbers. It's now been 20 years since the first asylum seekers arrived in the town. The town has been utterly destroyed by it. There are now several no go areas where interracial wars are ongoing between various countries bringing their tribal behaviour here,

I have literally been chased down the road by these men as they think it's their god given right to have a woman. They are openly misogynistic and raising misogynistic dc who attend local schools and the cycle continues into our own society.

If you haven't lived this first hand I can see why you think we are the 'nasty people' but actually my experience in a working class town is everyone genuinely tried to accommodate them but these people didn't want help. They wanted to continue their own culture with the benefit of western perks with no care for integrating with the locals whatsoever. They openly don't care and no they'll get away with it. Something does have to change imo.

Presumably these issues are with asylum seekers / legal immigrants rather than specific to those that enter the country illegally by boat?

Rishi's reference to stopping the "boat people" is presumably actually not specific to boat people but asylum seekers in general regardless of how they arrive.

Museya15 · 10/05/2023 06:36

verdantverdure · 10/05/2023 06:26

You must be really annoyed at the Tory government for building up such a backlog of asylum applications then? These costs would be massively reduced if they didn't take so long to get round to it.

And fuming that Tory government policy forces most asylum seekers to actually come here in order to apply at all. They wouldn't cost money to house if they applied online from elsewhere.

And furious that the Tories use asylum seeker accommodation as another way to profiteer from the public purse by transfering taxpayers money to their mates at Serco or similar.

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Play the blame game as much as you want, the fact is, if these fine young men weren’t here, that’d be an extra £1.5 billion towards nhs and education. If you’re happy to have it spent in this area then carry on but you also can’t complain about nhs cuts and the like.

verdantverdure · 10/05/2023 06:38

I don't think anyone falls for "extra money for the NHS" promises any more tbh

Dymaxion · 10/05/2023 06:42

Under accepted international norms, a country can use its foreign aid budget to pay for refugees/asylum seekers who reach that country for up to 12 months after their arrival. For the UK, the amount spent on people in the UK has gone from 3.2% (£410m) of the foreign aid budget in 2016 to 28.9% (£3,686m) in 2022. This means that people arriving by boats are not only costing the UK taxpayer, they are also costing poor countries desperately needed UK aid.

Do you know how much of that was spent on helping people fleeing Afghanistan and Ukraine ? Both situations occurred over a relatively recent 6 month period and could explain a sudden jump in spending in this area ?

LakieLady · 10/05/2023 06:46

Swansandcustard · 09/05/2023 21:39

The Tories are busy blaming ‘the boats’ for the other things on the list -

NHS crisis? Too many boat people
Teacher crisis? Too many boat people
Housing crisis? Too many boat people

and anything else that will fit the narrative of the DM reading working class Tory who thinks they deserve ‘more’. Quite often the older demographic who are in fact largely contributing to many of the ills by living too long at gobbling up NHS resources to stay alive longer!

As a 67-year old who's never voted Tory (and never will!), I resent the ageist stereotyping. 😉

Anyone who can't see that immigration is being used as a scapegoat for the government's failure to resource our public services adequately, while they have spaffed money up the wall on things like HS2 and dodgy Covid contracts for their chums, needs to open their eyes.

And I find it interesting that the number of asylum seeker arrivals has shot up since the end of 2019. It's almost as though losing the right to return asylum seekers to the "first safe country" under EU rules made the UK a more attractive choice.

Taking back control of our borders has really worked out well, and I hope those who voted for it are happy with the outcome.

LookingforMaryPoppins · 10/05/2023 06:54

KittyAlfred · 09/05/2023 15:11

Yes I think a lot of them have crap lives here, and regret coming. Better to have been stopped before they got this far surely.

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When Rishi refers to boat people, I dont believe his concern lies with the safety of those risking life and limb crossing the channel.

I think reference to boat people is actually asylum in general. The interest is not to have a fit for purpose system in place to process anyone claiming asylum and integrate them properly should they be eligible but to discourage there being any.

It seems the objective is somewhere in the realms of selective asylum - voters are supportive of the Ukraine, would Ukrainians be sent to Rwanda for processing?

Ironically, the requirements for immigration by visa has been signigicantly opened up over the last few years particular with the abolition of the resident labour market test - this never seems to be questioned / picked up on.

I am not against immigration or asylum at all, we need it.

The UK will never be the first country an asylum seeker reaches but that doesnt absolve the country of all moral responsibility. There needs to be a fit for purpose system in place.

I do also think that committing a crime should automatically revoke any visa / successful asylum / lead to deportion and a lifetime ban on returning.

Wills · 10/05/2023 06:55

Emotionalstorm · 10/05/2023 06:18

Stopping the boats and immigration is my number one priority and should be the number one priority of any party I vote for.

Sucker!

LakieLady · 10/05/2023 07:04

8state · 09/05/2023 22:02

@Anklespraying I am left wing, but I do believe we should have control of our borders.

Likewise.

It's a shame that those who voted to leave the EU to prevent Romanians, Poles etc from coming to the UK didn't realise that losing our Dublin III rights would mean determining asylum applications from Albania and everywhere else.

whereaw · 10/05/2023 07:07

It makes me sick to think of children being bundled on to boats to endure a terrifying ordeal and potential death. But that's great if it doesn't concern you.

But also, it's all interlinked - social care, nhs availability and resources, funding available for people who need it here vs huge sums spent on hotel bills... so it might not be in your top 5 but maybe the government can see it as a key issue that is getting drastically worse year on year and which is impacting all those other things you do care about. At what point would you want to do something about it?

Original poster

noblegiraffe · 10/05/2023 07:08

But that's great if it doesn't concern you.

OP posts:

saraclara · 10/05/2023 07:33

CabernetSauvignon · 09/05/2023 22:33

Seriously? Would you like to have to live on £45 a week which is reduced to a few pounds because you have to spend so much just signing on to retain the right to stay safe? As for those good hotels, if you think they are comfortably placed one each in the nice hotel bedrooms, you are deluded; they are having to share rooms with total strangers in pretty basic accommodation, and they get no choice where they go. As for not having to fulfil work obligations, that is one of the more ridiculous aspects of the system; we are forcing people with valuable skills to do this rather than letting them get jobs in areas where there are serious shortages so that they can come off asylum support, earn a sensible living and pay taxes.

Where do you find the evidence for your statement that asylum seekers don't get benefits anywhere else?

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Yes,

@EpicChaos 'no resource to public funds has a specific meaning. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-funds--2/public-funds

In this country, asylum seekers do not have the option of receiving any of the benefits that we do. The £45 is emergency money, and as I said, mostly disappears on fulfilling the legal requirement for them to attend a Home Office centre to sign in every week. So basically the HO is simply funding its own requirements.

While the tabloids will show the decent hotels that asylum seekers are put in (though without any of the services that a normal guest will get) the reality is that most boat arrivals will be in shockingly poor and overcrowed accommodation. One of those that I help in my retirement occupation, sent me a live video of eight mice running around the floor of his room.

Public funds

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-funds--2/public-funds

JustLollopingAlong · 10/05/2023 07:55

Brittl · 10/05/2023 00:57

It's not in my top 10 but yes scores of single fit healthy undocumented men arriving is worrying.

Very worrying

peonyoalace · 10/05/2023 08:22

They often work illegally so aren't always living off the small amount they get. In my area people claim and are granted asylum then dart back and forth between where they came from. Or are denied and stay here anyway.
I have been friends with a few of the dc growing up. They get by by doing all sorts.

They have access to a GP and dental care, free eye tests and help to pay for glasses, accommodation, toiletries, nappies etc and clothing by charities, a clothing allowance, a maternity allowance where needed. When taxes are rising and cost of living is going up it's not a surprise people on minimum wage and seeing less and less help themselves start to get upset.

There is a hotel down from us and it is not bad at all. The press is right. Those that work or volunteer in the hotel have to sign the official secrets act. They're doing their best to avoid local people getting really angry.

@saraclara you are part of the lucky people in the U.K. that haven't experienced things like living with mice running over the floor despite being born and raised here. I have.

This is why you can't see what local people who have lived in these places their whole life are getting so upset about. They are already living that way and no one will help them. Bringing in more people and stretching the same resources across more people just keeps more people in poverty here. Often the people in poverty do have less than the asylum seekers.

LookingforMaryPoppins · 10/05/2023 08:25

LakieLady · 10/05/2023 06:46

As a 67-year old who's never voted Tory (and never will!), I resent the ageist stereotyping. 😉

Anyone who can't see that immigration is being used as a scapegoat for the government's failure to resource our public services adequately, while they have spaffed money up the wall on things like HS2 and dodgy Covid contracts for their chums, needs to open their eyes.

And I find it interesting that the number of asylum seeker arrivals has shot up since the end of 2019. It's almost as though losing the right to return asylum seekers to the "first safe country" under EU rules made the UK a more attractive choice.

Taking back control of our borders has really worked out well, and I hope those who voted for it are happy with the outcome.

Show quote history

Absolutely! Couldn't agree more.

saraclara · 10/05/2023 08:34

peonyoalace · 10/05/2023 08:22

They often work illegally so aren't always living off the small amount they get. In my area people claim and are granted asylum then dart back and forth between where they came from. Or are denied and stay here anyway.
I have been friends with a few of the dc growing up. They get by by doing all sorts.

They have access to a GP and dental care, free eye tests and help to pay for glasses, accommodation, toiletries, nappies etc and clothing by charities, a clothing allowance, a maternity allowance where needed. When taxes are rising and cost of living is going up it's not a surprise people on minimum wage and seeing less and less help themselves start to get upset.

There is a hotel down from us and it is not bad at all. The press is right. Those that work or volunteer in the hotel have to sign the official secrets act. They're doing their best to avoid local people getting really angry.

@saraclara you are part of the lucky people in the U.K. that haven't experienced things like living with mice running over the floor despite being born and raised here. I have.

This is why you can't see what local people who have lived in these places their whole life are getting so upset about. They are already living that way and no one will help them. Bringing in more people and stretching the same resources across more people just keeps more people in poverty here. Often the people in poverty do have less than the asylum seekers.

I have not been asked to sign the official secrets act, as a volunteer.

You might be thinking of this story, which only affected that ex-barracks, not the hotels or other accommodation.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/23/home-office-accused-of-cover-up-at-camp-for-asylum-seekers

Home Office accused of cover-up at camp for asylum seekers

Official Secrets Act used to prevent volunteers discussing ‘disturbing’ conditions at ex-barracks

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/23/home-office-accused-of-cover-up-at-camp-for-asylum-seekers

beguilingeyes · 10/05/2023 08:34

Museya15 · 10/05/2023 06:04

So you’re all bleating on about the nhs and education but last year alone it cost the taxpayer £1.5 billion to look after asylum seekers. So I guess you’re happy for the money to be spent on this area rather than your little Josh and lotties education.

And how much did the Tories give to Dido Harding? 47 billion on something that other countries spend millions on.
4 or 5 billion on COVID fraud.
It's a case of priorities.

Quia · 10/05/2023 08:45

There is a hotel down from us and it is not bad at all.

Until three extra beds are fitted into a room meant for two, and you have to share with a load of strangers.