The People demand that the Boats are Stopped.

[noblegiraffe]

I keep reading about the Tory government working hard to deliver the people's priorities:

"Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Government are focused on five immediate priorities. We will halve inflation, grow the economy, reduce debt, cut NHS waiting lists and stop the boats."

Halve inflation (will happen anyway), grow the economy (vague), reduce debt (vague), cut NHS waiting lists (maybe by paying nurses and doctors more?), stop the boats (what?).

Maybe it's just where I live, but I'm not seeing this immediate urgent need to "stop the boats". It's certainly nowhere near my top 5 priorities for the government to be immediately tackling. If it was, I'd probably look at creating legal routes for genuine asylum seekers as a first step rather than shipping them to Rwanda.

Is it in your top 5 urgent government priorities? Are they speaking to the people and I've just completely missed it?

YABU: Stopping the boats is in my top 5 government priorities.
YANBU: I'm more concerned about something else and would bump Stop the Boats down the list.

You simply haven't read the posts in the thread, have you? Nor indeed have you even acquainted yourself with left wing policy. The left wing view is not that we shouldn't control our borders. The posts on here show a general view that illegal immigrants, including fake asylum seekers, should be deported as quickly as possible, and that we should have an efficient system in place to make that happen - which definitely is not the case currently. What people want, however, is that we should adhere to this country's treaty obligations and its rich tradition of taking in genuine refugees. We take in a a relatively small number of refugees compared to other countries. But you are clearly someone who doesn't like to let the facts get win the way of your prejudices.

Most of your post, unfortunately, is a meaningless and contradictory rant, you might like to try to formulate actual evidence-based arguments if you want people to pay attention to your views.

The world will continue to be more and more volatile as long as we encourage migration and refugee instead of telling people to say put and fight and work to make their home countries better places to live.

Ah, I see. It's late and I'm a bit slow. This thread isn't about anyone's top 5 issues, is it? It's just about you criticising the Toriies and their immigration policy. 🙄

Where did you get drowning from? The OP quoted this:

"Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Government are focused on five immediate priorities. We will halve inflation, grow the economy, reduce debt, cut NHS waiting lists and stop the boats."

She said the 'stop the boats ' wouldn't be in her top 5. She never said it's not an issue that needs to be addressed, she just said it's not in the top 5. In fact, it doesn't sound like Rishi is particularly concerned with drowning either, just the boats.

Why have you concluded she doesn't care about people drowning? Do you? If you care about people drowning, you should write to your MP suggesting the following:

Fully fund the RNLI (they're a volunteer organisation)
Return funding to schools so they can actually deliver the swimming lessons that are on the primary curriculum.
Return funding to local councils so they can actually fund their leisure facilities and run council swimming lessons.
Increase said funding so that council swimming lessons are affordable.
Increase funding in coastal areas to build swimming pools where kids and adults can access swimming lessons.
Return funding of public transport so people can get to said swimming pools.
Possibly think about educating kids on how to outdoor swim safely. This is very common even in landlocked countries in Europe. We need money and people who actually want to work in schools to do this though.
Sort out an easier and quicker way to process asylum claims so that people aren't forced onto dinghies manned by people smugglers.

Swimming pools across the country are closing at an alarmin rate. There has been no investment in their infrastructure for the last 10 years and the wear and tear in many of them is so bad, it doesn't make financial sense to fix them. If you care so much about people drowning, which is a very noble cause, I suggest you do any of the above.

I mean it's what Rishi said is his top 5 priorities, whether that's imaginary or not is I guess dependant on what you believe.

These threads are always an interesting display of left wing general contempt for everything about the country they live in and is citizens! Especially about any one that holds any sort of notion that a country is entitled to control it's borders.

We do control our borders, we let in hundreds of thousands of people each year perfectly legally. That is controlled migration, you might not like it or agree with it but it is controlled.
The Government doesn't appear to know what to do for the best regarding the issue of people crossing the Channel in rubber dinghies, they have had a few years to come up with a variety of plans to deal with it and so far seem to be struck with the spend millions and fly them to Africa as a solution. It doesn't strike me as a very 'stop the boats' solution and I would love to know what other ideas were rejected.

France has asked for the UK to set up a processing centre in Calais, allowing people to apply for asylum from there, and then be safely taken to the UK via boat if their application was successful, but the UK said no.

Eh? You criticised me for apparently being happy to let people drown in the Channel which is obviously bollocks.

I asked, in the OP, whether people's top 5 priorities for the government to tackle included stopping the boats, because the government asserts that it does.

The majority of people in the poll have said that it is not in their top 5.

People in the thread suggested it's because I don't live on the SE coast, but then it was pointed out that those people recently voted for other parties than the Tories. People who live in Kent and the coast have said that it's not in their top 5.

Some people have said that the number of men in hotels is a concern and a safety issue, which is fair enough. This appears to be caused by a massive backlog in processing asylum claims and deporting people who are not genuine asylum seekers - this clearly needs tackling aside from stopping the boats.

Some have confused stopping the boats with stopping immigration, or uncontrolled immigration. I wonder if this is deliberate on the government's part to keep the Brexiteers on side, although as far as I can see, all their talk of stopping the boats is based around the people on the boats.

There has also been a demonstration of overestimating the scale of the numbers coming here on boats, and of the proportion of asylum seekers claiming asylum here, which is also interesting.

I have read the thread @CabernetSauvignon

I'm referring to the usual lack of accountability left wing people take for their own services. There's post after post abdicating any actual responsibility for underperforming services that are by and large left wing dominated.

There's a general throw more money at it attitude, accompanied by an overtone of contempt for the actual process of generating the cash that should apparently be spent.

You are a classic high horse lefty, assuming you have the moral right to assume you know better and can look down on me for having a laugh at the general failure of the left to realise it is yourselves you criticise the most under the convenient cover of the Tory bogeyman.

Seriously? Would you like to have to live on £45 a week which is reduced to a few pounds because you have to spend so much just signing on to retain the right to stay safe? As for those good hotels, if you think they are comfortably placed one each in the nice hotel bedrooms, you are deluded; they are having to share rooms with total strangers in pretty basic accommodation, and they get no choice where they go. As for not having to fulfil work obligations, that is one of the more ridiculous aspects of the system; we are forcing people with valuable skills to do this rather than letting them get jobs in areas where there are serious shortages so that they can come off asylum support, earn a sensible living and pay taxes.

Where do you find the evidence for your statement that asylum seekers don't get benefits anywhere else?

I do agree that throwing money at things won't solve it all, it needs to be well managed to be beneficial and that rarely happens. There is a weird to and fro that happens between the left and right. It's not a competition. We all have to live with this and is perfectly ok to agree with some things from each party.
I do think though that public sector jobs are so poorly paid they don't attract the best candidates. Those ones who are capable and clever, are trapped under red tape and leave quickly, usually after being bullied and burnt out.

Stop the boats does actually mean something to people, to people that serve and have served in the armed forces and to people that recognise that there is a cohort of people relocating for economic reasons.

We are entitled to address this method of entry. It has very deep roots. It's a substantial part of our national identity. As with every other national group in the world.

The contempt for people who feel this way is always accompanied here by people that also have contempt for the UK generally.

I do think though that public sector jobs are so poorly paid they don't attract the best candidates. Those ones who are capable and clever, are trapped under red tape and leave quickly, usually after being bullied and burnt out.

But this is us.

This is the UK population.

The below average people are as entitled to work as the above average people.

Taking your statement to it's extreme means that below average people are not welcome to work, we expect the world to provide their above average people and UK citizens can be supported in inactivity whilst the best of the world comes here and pays for them.

That's rapacious capitalism.

to people that recognise that there is a cohort of people relocating for economic reasons

What about the majority on the boats with legitimate asylum claims?

I don't wish to engage in whataboutery.

I'm observing the contempt that underlays the normal human need for national identity.

And the assumption that we're somehow uniquely appalling for this in the 🌎.

I do think though that public sector jobs are so poorly paid they don't attract the best candidates. Those ones who are capable and clever, are trapped under red tape and leave quickly, usually after being bullied and burnt out.

Wow, the contempt is just dripping off this comment. The assumption that all of us chase the £ as our primary goal in life, so of course the ‘best’ make the most £ is cynical. My experience with the public sector is that because they operate on a shoe string budget, they cannot afford any deadwood and so the lazy and entitled are usually the ones who leave, while the clever and capable ones stay. You have to be clever and capable to navigate the red tape and public scrutiny.

I don't mean it like that. At all. The average person is actually quite clever. When you look at IQ tests performed by EPs, average is pretty high in terms of cognitive ability. The education system in this country is failing many kids, so they're not reaching their potential and this will be a huge problem very soon, when they reach working age.
However, what I mean is, you need a balance within a workplace. It's very hard to attract a good quality candidate with years of managerial experience, who may well be very good in financial policy and management, to a public sector job, if it's paid so badly. Money is the motivation. There's lots of perfectly clever people working in public sector, but they're also demotivated but the low wages, corruption and red tape. Its very difficult to attract anyone to a position like that, and with recruitment being quite difficult at the moment, the good candidates will get snapped up by private companies. There's nothing in public sector to entice them. The training provided in public sector is woeful too, and policies change so often, it's difficult to keep up with processes. Add to that lots of angry members of the public, it creates an environment where the only ones that stay in the job, are ones that probably can't get a job somewhere else, for whatever reason.

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar - More importantly do you even understand the difference? If you please elaborate, it would be good to see you wiggle out of that one!

Aren’t asylum seekers a subcategory of immigrants? Immigrant is an umbrella term surely?

Whataboutery? It’s literally about the topic in hand, the people on the boats.

You’re saying “stop the boats” means something. You mentioned people coming here for economic reasons.

And the rest of them? Are you against genuine asylum seekers entering the U.K. in general, or just on boats?

What does this have to do with the armed forces? They do not have any tradition of deploying to stop refugees entering, rather the contrary; they have a proud history of supporting the persecuted.

We could stop this method of entry at a stroke by arranging a process for checking asylum claims abroad, and by having an efficient process for dealing with those that are not processed abroad currently so that non-genuine claims (including from economic immigrants) can be weeded out quickly and the claimants sent back. Surely that is what "people who feel this way" want?

I for one am very proud of our history of taking in refugees. It is a massive part of our national tradition and indeed our national identity. It's a strong element of why we went to war in 1939. It's the people who want to bring it to an end who have contempt for the UK.

What contempt? I work in public sector. Not everyone chases £ as a primary goal in life, but it would be disingenuous to say that's not important and a motivating factor when people apply for jobs. I'm not sure what level of public sector you're talking about, but the last part of your post is certainly not true in my borough. The staff retention is abysmal.

What exactly do underperforming services have to do with the issue of boats bringing asylum seekers? You still aren't addressing the points people are making on the thread.

If we process asylum cases quickly so that genuine asylum seekers can get work and non-genuine ones can be sent back, that will both save money and help to revive the economy. That's just common sense. By contrast, it is the right who are throwing money at the issue - have you any idea how many millions they have wasted on the Rwanda farce? And how much money they waste by having an unbelievably inefficient asylum claim processing system?

As for failure of the left, have you noticed who has been presiding over this mess for the last 13 years?

I didn't comment on your state of mind when people drowned, I just said you thought there were more important issues. Is that not true?

I'm not seeing this immediate urgent need to "stop the boats". It's certainly nowhere near my top 5 priorities

What does this have to do with the armed forces?

There you demonstrate it all in one indignant and ignorant sentence.

Why do you think nations have armed forces?

Go and read about their purpose.