Are people having to work 24 hours a day now to survive? 😮

[Passthecheeseboard]

Just got off the phone to DH, he works in security and apparently the guy he should have been taking over from went AWOL about an hour before his shift was supposed to end (agency staff). I told him how the guy sounds like he just couldn’t be arsed and wanted to go home early, however DH told me no he wanted to get to his other job. He asked DH at the start of the shift if he could come in early to let him go to his other job for another 12 hour shift. DH explained they are not allowed to pick and choose their hours and have to work their shift unless they have authorised leave. So this guy ignored that and just left the site unmanned to get to his other job.

Anyhow I just can’t get over the fact that this guy has just finished a 12 hour day shift to go straight to a 12 hour night shift at another site. Is this the lengths people are having to go to to survive now? Anyone else here do 24 hour shifts (going straight from one job to another) or know of anyone that does? Is sleep now a luxury not everyone can afford? 🤔

There was an incident near where I live a few years ago where a junior doctor was so exhausted she fell asleep at the wheel, her car struck a tree and she was killed 😢

It seems to be the cause of lots of car accidents

@ILoveeCakes Your comment made me chuckle. My daughter is a nurse and she won't work extra for no pay! 😂

I do think working more than 48 a week should be banned. We need a work/life balance.
No one should live to work.

@OnceAgainWithFeeling then you should know that the rules/law regarding what you can and can’t work are absolutely unenforceable by anyone. People will continue to have to work several jobs regardless of ‘rules’ if their personal circumstances dictate it necessary- and employers etc can do bugger all about it other than pay better wages.

Agree - but if it’s a choice of being homeless or paying your rent - then two jobs or more it is. Sadly some skills/jobs although much needed by society are not paid a decent wage. Until that’s rectified ……

Absolutely!
A full time minimum wage should be enough to live on.
Rent is tricky, as you could be on poor wage in a high rent area. I think that is something that the benefit system should help with.

Exh used to work double shifts when we first got together, he would do mornings 6.00am - 1.30pm & afternoon 1.30pm - 9.00pm straight through or a 12 hour night & straight on to mornings so he would work from 6.00pm - 6.00am then 6.00am - 1.30pm. He worked in the steelworks as a forgeman, he even worked the nightshift the night before we got married, finished at 6.00am & we got married at 1.00pm. We were live ships that passed in the night, he walked in as I was walking out or if he was on a night double I came home, we had a quick tea & I dropped him at work, the money was good, he was bringing home £1k a week with 4 doubles on 2001, if he worked an afternoon - night double I worked 4 hours overtime at work 3 nights a week, we were just setting up home together & needed the money.

I actually do judge people who do this if they’re in a job that keeps people safe or well or they drive to or from work. How many accidents have we heard of where people fell asleep at the wheel?

I can assure you that my company enforces it, and takes action against anyone that takes a second job without permission or operates in any way that risks their own safety or that of others and/or risks the reputation of the organisation. The nature of the organisation means safety is paramount.

Basic salaries are good. There is lots of opportunity for overtime/extra shifts but within the terms set out by the WTD.

if they did that though, they would have to raise minimum wage…

DH (although not doing back to back shifts) does 60 hours a week, I do lots of overtime so do around 48 hours a week and our incomes combined can just about cover mortgage and bills and food, we by no means live an extravagant lifestyle. We don’t have children (God only knows how people afford to, must be such a struggle). It’s just so difficult to survive with the rising costs of living, I absolutely feel we are living to work. (I guess that is what the tories want though!). We were planning a weekend break to York to see the Christmas market but had to cancel as we just don’t have the finances this month to afford the hotel. 😢

I can completely understand why people work 24 hours a day and do back to back shifts, especially if you’re single. I can imagine it’s either that or just be homeless in a lot of cases. It’s sad though that people have to sacrifice their sleep, and dangerous if they are driving cars…

@XenoBitch I really wish council
houses had never been sold off - or if they did sell them, they had to replace it by buying or building a replacement home. Definitely need more council housing. I think we should also bring back subsidised homes for certain professions - eg we used to have consultants/doctors and nurses homes right in the city centre adjacent to the hospital, almost an entire estate, with low rents for the hospital employees, some were flats and some were family homes. All sold off now and never replaced or wages increased to reflect private rents.

Also DP said this agency guy smells quite bad too, I’m thinking the poor guy doesn’t even have time to go home to shower between shifts

@OnceAgainWithFeeling - so how do they /you know that someone has multiple jobs unless they actually tell you - you don’t!!!
So some one looks tired - they could just tell you they had a rough night - and not that they were working. There is absolutely no way to know unless some one admits to it. - those that are in the poverty line just won’t say anything as you are to frightened to lose a job. As for basic salaries are good - you do realise that not all firms pay good salaries - an awful lot of people are paid minimum wage in jobs in which safety is paramount and can mean life or death for other people.
the wtd can be signed away and is certainly unenforceable.

Lots of ways:

1. It’s a regulated industry. 75% of our people would have to have references covering at least 10 years of employment to do what they do for us elsewhere.
2. Someone turning up tired would be given the benefit of the doubt the first time. Repeat events would see them sent home on unpaid or sick leave on safety grounds. Unpaid leave defeats the object of the second job. Repeated sick leave would progress through the sickness policy, be referred to Occ health, burn through sick pay and again, kinda defeats the object.
3. Tax code changes/queries.
4. Most people can’t/don’t keep things like this secret for long. They’d drop it into conversation at some point to someone, who would then be duty bound to act/report.

Appreciate this is easier for us than in other industries, but it’s not impossible. If someone is determined to work excessive hours and something happens to them, there is no cover if the employer(s) aren’t aware and can’t be sued. 🤷🏻‍♀️

To be clear, AGAIN, you cannot “opt out” of the WTD entirely. The rest breaks apply to all but a very few specialist circumstances.

@OnceAgainWithFeeling and once again only rest breaks whilst actually being employed can be enforced. There is absolutely no way to know or enforce breaks between different employers. You can only schedule your own employees on your employers rota - an employer CANNOT schedule another employers rota for their employee.
unless the employee tells you they have a second job - you simply, as an employer, know why that employee is doing outside of your paid hours. And yes you can opt out of the 48 hours working time directive element as an employee. In effect making rest breaks between jobs non existent between different employers, and bringing the rest period down to 9 hours between shifts for the same employer - 9 hours to get home, sleep, eat, wash and get back to work, which isn’t enough if you have an hours journey to work and to sleep for 8 hours. So still dangerous.
You just don’t get that the wtd is useless legislation and easily negated to you?

Non of this actually happens in low paid jobs - nhs and care sector where lives are at risk. Tax codes won’t be reported from accounts to managers. Plus people can and do submit self employed tax returns in second jobs - so you still wouldn’t know! Not to mention cash in hand and volunteering - which require no tax code. As for repeat events of being tired and being sent home - never happens as employers need staff to cover - can’t have a care home without staff or a hospital without nurses / doctors. You know places that need people or clients die!

given you need for 10 years references I would guess you are in financial services - not a low paid high risk (human life) sector. Not a low paid essential service.

Yes, totally different in low paid jobs.

Christ, if I was sent home every time I was knackered at the start of my 12 hour care shift, I would never be there, nor would any of the other staff!

Everyone I’ve worked with who had a second job was open about it. We all earned the same crap pay and care home managers couldn’t give a monkeys about their staff, they just want them in work.

I remember doing 9-3pm then 8pm-4am to save money earlier. I got about 4-5 hours sleep. It is what it is.

I used to finish my office job and work in the pub till 1 am ish, on a weekend I'd clean from 9-2, rest, and go back to the pub to work.
I still clean on the weekend sat sun for 4hrs each day, even though I'm in middle management. TBH I don't think I'll be doing the cleaning much longer, tiredness is creeping in now I'm getting older.
I have a friend who does nights in a nursing home and then cleans during the day.

Not FA. Emergency healthcare.

Having come from the NHS…….

So you should know about dr taking second jobs as locums and nurses and hca taking on bank shifts/agency shifts and care shifts outside their own hospitals/clinical settings…. To name just a few, don’t forget porters/kitchen staff/cleaners.
So you are telling us lot that’s why the nhs is in its knees - because the nhs is sacking all these people needing to take on second jobs - to put it bluntly - pull the other one, it’s got bells on.