To think the NHS is wonderful and on the whole does a marvellous job?

[mrsruffallo]

I had to go to a&e yesterday for a bad wound. Had 2 xrays and eleven stitches within 2 hours, and had a wonderful nurse and several visits from a kindly doctor.
I know it gets a bad press but day in day out I think it is an institution that we should be very proud of.
My only bad experience has been maternity services, I concede that.

And don't sit behind pillars or large furniture when you go for appointments since you will get overlooked .

One NHS classic for me was when I took my Mum in with a suspected hernia and when we finally got down to x-ray we waited so long I had to leave her to dash back, pack her a bag, run my Dad into her, dash home again and collect my dd from school before going back. It transpired that when the files came in from a & e, they were being put on top of the tray so naturally people who came in last were being called first (unless they were with day-ambulance crews who routinely queue-jump with their patients). Had I been around longer and in sight of the desk I would have spotted this a bit sooner and said something . There was a poor lady in there with an epidural in her back, bent double in her wheelchair, waiting for her x-ray. Her husband looked ready to rip someone's head off. Why they didn't take from the bottom of the pile, I fail to understand. A bit of empathy from the clerical staff wouldn't have gone amiss.

comfytoast I've just read your first message. I'm so sorry.

comfytoast-You didn't come across ranty at all. I don't think that anyone would begrudge you your anger and frustration in those cicumstances.

I have met some nurses and drs that make me think the NHS is pants.

IME of private/NHS the NHS gave better care all the way - the private looked nicer but with my 'behind the scenes' knowledge the NHS was a million times better.

I have been quite luckily particularly with mental health services which I have recently been able to access even though I had been out of them for ages and they are supporting me in something quite specialised and yeah.

I spent 13 hours on placement today and I am sure people went home thinking how pants we were, but honestly I do try really really hard and sometimes when nurses seem a bit stupid they don't mean to be

Same here Greensleeves (not over maternity services but care for elderly)

This should probably be for a different thread - but I used to support the principle of free health care for all
before I moved abroad and before I went through fairly traumatic events with my elderly parents in their local NHS hospital in UK. Now I look at things differently.

I think those of us who are lucky enough to be able to pay a bit, should contribute a bit. I don't understand why those who can afford it are prepared to pay £30 to see a football match but expect to see a doctor for free. If we had compulsory means-tested health insurance as happens in the rest of Europe, then perhaps the care given in wards for the elderly and in maternity units could be a little more dignified and comfortable. Let me be clear though - free health care should be available for those on low incomes, with disabilities, chronic conditions etc - and how much we pay should be means tested according to family size and income - I'm NOT advocating an American model here.

Don't understand this dogmatic approach of pay nothing or pay everything. Why not pay a little bit if you can afford a little bit to help the NHS?

(And totally agree with others who say private hospitals can look wonderful but have dangerously low staff cover behind the scenes.)

The money issue aside, agree very much with NotNowBernard's post.

But we do all pay a bit through tax and N.I. I think this is a much better system

My last experience of the NHS in the UK was pretty poor, so I cant agree iwth the OP, Im afraid. It has a lot of wonderful people working in it though.

ds is currently in hosp, and I am glad he is in Germany for the superb healthcare - (but wish it was France when it comes to dinnertime, the food is almost as bad as in the UK)

I think it's a brilliant system in principle - but in reality there's not enough funding

(sorry - don't want to hijack - there's alot about the NHS that is to be admired)

Sadly my experience of delays and lost notes, and cancellations, and huge waiting lists have really annoyed me re the NHS. However the consultant when I did see him and the consultant carrying out my surgeries was excellent. It was just the rest of it and the fact that I had to wait so long to actually get to this point. Had I paid to go private I'd have been seen within a couple of weeks, not several months.

i dont want to say the nhs is in any way bad, but there is more of a differance between private/nhs than just the decor! a few months ago i needed a specialist scan to decide for/against an op, refered to hospital told the wait would be 12-15 weeks, i rang the department to enquire about getting it done privately and had it the next day! since then i have had private and nhs care, the nursing is no different, they all try really hard and do a great job for crap wages the difference is with private i know if i need a doctor i can get one quikly, nobody should have to wait 12 weeks for their health.

On the whole we have had good NHS experiences - (Blu - even a late Friday dx resulting in dd's surgeon and team being brought in and probably having most of their weekend ruined ) Children's services have in general been excellent, apart from orthotics.

But there have been some bad bits - a fairly spectacular misdiagnosis by our local paeds team, a near-fatal drug od and a alcoholic GP.

The cleanliness is a real problem I think and when you are more afraid of your child getting an infection from hospital than putting them in for a GA it's time to be concerned.

I agree with yurt that the good bits are fab and the bad bits really grim.

I work for the NHS, but out in the community with people with Learning Disabilities. I'm very proud of what we do, and often say I hope I'm as well looked after when I'm old. We get lots of compliments and thanks, but I also know there's a lot of things that we could do much much better at if we had the support.

As far as hospitals go I've only had a few occasions to visit them, but generally they've been great.
My Dad had an op recently and there were severe complications, no-one to blame, we knew there were risks. It was touch and go, but the level of care and expertise he received was outstanding. They were sending test results off to all the top people in the country to do the best for him. While he was in intensive care he had 1:1 nursing care, and those nurses never stopped. They were constantly checking, filling in charts, making adjustments, or consoling and reassuring us.
I dread to think about the thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of pounds it cost to keep him in there, but the staff earned every penny. Had he been a private patient he'd have been in exactly the same bed, and looked after by exactly the same people.

The only negative hospital experience was when I was on the post labour wards. The staff were fantastic, but it was dirty. Not because of the cleaners though, but because of other patients not cleaning up after themselves. You'd think with all the news reports people would have the sense and courtesy to wipe the toilet seat and floor when they drip blood on them!

I've worked for the NHS for 10 years as a mental health nurse. I've also worked as a lecturer in nursing and now work as a therapost in CAMHS. I have to say my experience as both a worker and a "client" of the NHS is highly variable.

I currently work for a great team but the nature of NHS management means we are forced to work in a way that means we're constantly assessing (due to having to meet waiting list targets) and very little time actually following through with comprehensive treatment pacakages. I "check in" with people every so often and TBH a lot of my work is little more than minitoring. This is very frustrating being skilled in therapeutic interventions and not being given the structure and management support to carry them out effectively. Family therapy have the same problem as do all the therapeutic specialities (I'm CBT).

However I've worked in some terrible, institutionalised totally non therapeutic psychiatric settings where the care and well being of the patients (particularly in secure settings) comes second to the megalomania and aspirations of the, quite frankly, thick staff.

As a lecturer I frequently encountered students who were practically and academically up to the job. The entrance requirements have benn lowered considerably over the last few years and the written clinical work of some students was quite frankly substandard. despite this several things that were expected of us as students 10 years ago seem to have been brushed aside. 10 years ago we kept our bed spaces scrupuloulsly clean, us not the domestic staff. the first thing we learnt was to change beds abd we SCRUBBED every drop of bodily fluid and cleaned everything away promptly. Sadly this no longer seems to be the case students seem to think they're above these things (IME I know not all are like this before i get lynched!).

my ante-natal care was appalling, the delivery unit and post natal ward were fab ( although I don't know how much of that aws to do with the fact it said "nurse lecturer" on my notes!) and my post natal care was at best mediocre. I could go on but I've ranted enough!

The doctors, nurses & the level of clinical care on the NHS in many cases world class.
In the 5 yrs since ds2's birth we have had more than our moneys worth out of the NHS & we would not have him today if it weren't for the prompt action of out GP followed by the antenatal clinic & followed by the ICU/SCBU.
However despite the desire by the medical staff to want to do more they are tied by beurocracy, expensive contracts issued to incapable contract companies, this leads to months of waiting for a child to have splints fitted to get them mobile because a contract is being transferred, no SALT because pre school services are out of budget despite school age SALT provision having a surplus.
Elderly people being unfed in a ward because the contract ward staff are waiting for a training course!
So NHS ime fantastic, the fecking managers that make the policies a bunch of useless money wasting idiots

My mum has a very rare disease. She is treated by no less than 5 different consultants as her problem requires the expertise of many specialists. In the last year she has had 2 operations, 12 xrays, endless expensive blood tests, many courses of chemo, immunioglobulin and steroids. She has also had 8 MRI scans and 3 cat scans, not to mention a total of 8 weeks in hospital. Her care has been superb. My uncle who lives in canada says that had she lived there or in the states my parents would be bankrupt. (MRI scans alone cost £800 each!)

I think the NHS is totally wonderful.

Sorry typo I meant a lot of students who unfortunately were not up to the job academically or in a clinical setting.

As for the difference between NHS and private, I undertook quality audits of 2 private psychiatric adolescent in patient units (one of a rather famous group liked by celebs!). Nice food reasonable decor, mostly agnecy staff, ward manager who had No experience of adolescent mental health and had never worked with eating disorders , no knowledge of nice guidance re adolescent depression, no therapeutic day structure etc etc. In comparison our local NHS child and adolescent units are a bit shabby with s**t food, but the staff are trained, knowledgeable, consistent and experineced and answerable to policies and guidelines. I know where I'd rather my dd (god forbid) went.

My current manager is a physics graduate who's been on the NHS graduate management training scheme

peacelily - every student nurse I know cleans, makes beds and feeds religiously its the bread and butter of nursing!

i do see problems there, like today I fed an old lady who had had her meal dumped next to her and they left it because she would probably not eat, as it was I offered and she refused (she was acutely ill and so i understand why) but I was so annoyed that nobody bothered to even offer her the food - it was auxiliaries and caterers not feeding her btw, i stopped an admission to feed

You're right smurfgirl it is the bread and butter of nursing and I'm so pleased that you know students who appreciate this and actually do it! Unfortunately when I was a lecturer i recieved numerous complaints about students who would refuse to do this kind of "basic" although essential care which I found very strange.

I really pleased though that it's not like that everywhere!

The issue with feeding is a biggie, that kind of thing happens all to often IME. Nutrition is everyones responsibility.

A lot of the 'cleanliness' problems where I work are actually environmental issues out ofhte hands of the contractor to deal with (flaking paint along skirting boards in the Victorian wards for example looks like dirt when it falls on the floor). That's down to the Trust maintenance to deal with so if the Chief exec's carpet needs replacing due to a coffee spillage then you're going to wait longer for the wards to be repainted... [shut mouth icon]. FWIW, there is also a perception amongst some (mostly elderly) people that since hospitals no longer reek of bleach, then they're not 'clean' which isn't true - the chemicals they use are actually stronger than most bleaches.. provided that they're used properly.

Here are some more student tips (not rocket science but will make it a whole lot nicer for you and the staff..oh and pts of course)

Oi Students Upon arrival

dont loudly announce that you didn't pick/don't want this clinical allocation

Ask if we have internet/ebay/facebook

dont gallop straight to the tea/coffee/biscuits

Don't Talk loudly on your mobile or worse the ward phone about your social life/sex life/essay you just failed

do feign interest in what we do

do pretend to listen

easy peasy really

LOL scottishmummy!

Also don't be constantly saying you have x amount of study days WHEN ITS A COMPLETE LIE.

Don't stand in front of the cold-counter in the refectory with your entire year's intake, buttering buns for bacon butties or making tea very slowly whilst blocking anyone else (qualified doctors/nurses/paeds/etc, clerical staff, visitors, patients) from accessing said counter.

By all means butter your buns etc, but take them unbuttered to your table with a knife and do it there.

Not that I dread the placement switches

oi students

don't travel in packs of 49 collectively buying a sandwich - its the canteen keep movin

dont steal the bnf/books/pens/stationary