it's daft to think parents with kids in private school have money to burn?

[Popgoestheweaselagain]

Just got asked by my school what would be the impact if they had to pay VAT, adding 20% to fees. My response was 'I'd try to keep my child in the school, but ....'. I think almost all parents would respond this way. Alarmed, did a quick google, and found this is Labour policy. Next time they come knocking at my door looking for my vote, I'll be telling them why they can't have it!

Now, I understand why some people are ideologically opposed to private schools, the unfariness etc. But when I hear this argument that goes something like 'Those people must have loads of money because they send their kids to private school' it kind of annoys me. Money is finite. If you've spent all your money on school fees, you obviously don't have it anymore!

I'm sure everyone is very grateful to you.

This

Labour would have to properly think this policy through - it's likely to tip the balance for a lot of parents to withdraw from private schools and is the state system ready for that?

I can't afford private school and am ideologically opposed to them. They absolutely should not be considered a charity. If you can't afford it with an extra 20% then your kids will just have to go to a state school with all the poor parents kids 🙄

Same old thread popping up for the usual slap down of the OP

What are state parents' opinions on tutors? Swimming lessons? Karate clubs? Football clubs?

That these things should be offered, free of charge, as part of state school provision for ALL children by fairly taxing the wealthy. HTH.

How about private health care. Should people be allowed to have that?

Probably not.

(Yes, yes they are)

The issue with the policy is that many private school parents won’t be able to afford an extra 20%… so then where do their children go to school? It’s not like the state sector has an abundance of spare places.
Putting aside the flaws of the system, people who pay for their children’s education are taking some of the pressure off the state system. Adding VAT to school fees would make the pressures on the state system worse.
My children are state educated by the way so no skin in the game.

I'm not in the UK, but I pay 500EUR a year to a state school, plus have to buy all their equipment (another 400ish EUR), and that's just primary.

For Secondary, private schools get some teachers funded by the state, which makes the privates more affordable than UK private schools (5k/year), and fees are without VAT. (still have to buy all books and equipment)

This is a country that prioritises education - vs. the UK, which seems determined to provide it free, or hugely expensive and nothing in between - and now apparently wants to make it even more hugely expensive - I can't see how education, even expensive education is a luxury.

Where are all these spare places?

That these things should be offered, free of charge, as part of state school provision for ALL children by fairly taxing the wealthy. HTH.

The wealthy are already hugely taxed. Why should they pay more?

What an odd thing to say? Are you seeking to be deliberately offensive? I didn't ask for gratitude, I made a simple point about saving taxpayer money.

They shouldn't need it in the first place. If the Tories would fund education and health properly instead of giving tax breaks to the rich there would be no need for private healthcare.

Surely state education is the luxury - education for your children that you don't have to find money to pay for because it is paid for by progressive taxes rather than out of your own pocket.

There is a debate about what schools need to do to be classified as charities, but if schools no longer had charitable obligations there would be a direct and negative effect on the local community (including local schools) who currently benefit from those obligations. The schools would no longer be able to justify activities that don't directly benefit the pupils of that school.

Agreed.

I do think there needs to be a compromise. Maybe offer more scholarships or funded places to bright children who are from poorer backgrounds. I would rather see that. I know people who have worked very hard to give their kids this education and I would like that to continue. They do also make the choice to put their children there when there is a free alternative, so I do think they are rich and definitely not struggling. It is the same as buying a large house or a brand new car and saying you are struggling. It is through your own frivolous choices.

Who would fund these extra payments for school places and new schools?

Incase you hadn’t noticed, this country is struggling to keep the lights and heating on in the schools it’s got.

Are the wealthy already hugely taxed, given the drop for higher earners?

And if parents won't be able to afford a 20% price hike, the business aka school, might just have to rethink their greedy prices!

Private schools give already rich and privaledged kids another huge advantage over uni places and work place, allowing them to keep securing their place above those who are Less well off. They aren't fair. We shouldn't need private schools!

As for 'where are the spare places' remember when the Government used to build schools, make places, invest in education? It hasn't always been cuts cuts cuts and it doesn't have to be this way.

Surely state education is the luxury - education for your children that you don't have to find money to pay for because it is paid for by progressive taxes rather than out of your own pocket.

Never thought of it like that but completely agree

For many parents with kids in private schools, VAT on top of the other rising costs would be more than they could take. If Labour have any sense, they would introduce it either gradually or with five years warning, so that it's not payable for children partway through secondary.

(There was a similar but smaller scale issue in the 1990s when the HMC decided to start means-testing all scholarships over 50% - which led to the current system where pupils have smaller scholarships topped up by bursary if needed. It was introduced at quite short notice, and parents whose children were applying for major scholarships suddenly discovered they were not going to get anything like what they would have done previously.)

Of course YANBU. Lots of parents make huge sacrifices to afford private school because education is a necessity, not a luxury. Most private school parents are not "rich", by any definition. And the cost of private education was one of the (many) reasons why I chose not to have kids.

Pivate school IS a luxury product and it should be charged as such.

I can see all the ideological reasons for putting vat on school fees.

I do wonder about the practical implications though and I think this is what OP is getting at. People often talk about vat on school fees as if the only outcome will be more money for the Revenue. Actually, another outcome will be that some proportion of children move from the private sector to the state sector because their parents could afford £x but can't afford £x+20%. Knowing what the proportion of children is going to be would seem pretty key to knowing whether this measure will actually increase money for the Revenue or not.

It's also very important for the question of the availability of school places. Where I live in North London, there aren't enough state school places as it is. If 10% of the large number of parents currently sending their children private suddenly choose state instead, the situation will become even worse- hope Labour can increase school places as quickly as they can increase taxes! NB this won't affect the children who might otherwise have gone private- it will affect everyone.

It's also worth thinking about the other unintended consequences, such as the reduction of charitable activities schools carry out. For some schools this isn't much, for others it's really significant. I'm sure schools will attempt to keep up the work they do but there will be massive downward pressure on fees- not sure how many parents will want to donate to support bursary places, say, when their own children are about to lose their places due to lack of funds.

This. VAT gets charged on other luxury services, why not private schooling?