Steiner / Montessori

[tall1234]

Does anyone have any experience of Steiner / Montessori schools for kids struggling to cope in mainstream?

As I said earlier, my school does too.

But it isn't that common in the UK, so OP will need to consider her options locally.

Hiya, do you have any local schools that run on the international baccalaureate instead of national curriculum? My DD5 is at an IB school (year 1) and it is amazing for her (pending diagnosis of ADHD). They don't learn "subjects" per say but have a termly theme that all lessons tie in with. It's a lot less rigid and more child led and all the children at her school seem to absolutely love it.

Must admit it it makes me chuckle when she comes home waffling on about her "learner profile attributes" bless her.

I'd be very, very careful with Steiner. My DS went to one and it was ultimately a fucking nightmare that caused him damage it's taking years to undo. Serious bullying issues, instigated and encouraged by the teacher. Mainly directed at another child but left DS extremely withdrawn as he just went into himself as a form of escape. I literally witnessed it happening and spoke to someone on the BoM who feared it might have been happening and said she felt awful for not paying more attention. Two days later, they essentially closed ranks to deny it happened. Hounded the family of the most bullied child out of the school.

From my reading since, what we experienced was a relatively common experience with the way Steiners deal with bullying. I've talked to people online and in real life who have had these awful experiences with them and the overall policy is to deny and bully out the victims.

we are Scotland. That’s disappointing to hear all this about Steiner

OP, have you approached his current school and discussed his anxiety and strategies that could be put into place to help with this? Moving schools is a huge step, especially if it's to a school that is so different from what he is currently used to.

Also I 100% agree with the previous posters comments on Steiner, and would cross it off your list now.

For anxiety a smaller private school might be able to offer what you need within a normal education offering. At 12 I'm not sure there even are schools with these philosophies. Our Montessori secondary closed years ago

I went to a Montessori school but it only went up to age 11. I loved it.

I've heard all of sorts of bizarre and dodgy things about Steiner schools and wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.

I have a friend whose daughters travel 50 miles each way to go to a Steiner School. And the only thing they have learned is reading/literature. They aren't intrinsically motivated to do real concrete maths, and I would normally say kids learn maths naturally through activities, but they haven't. They are also extremely anxious and fearful of the world in general. I don't remember them being this way as toddlers and young children, and I think maybe they are already feeling different and unprepared when compared to their peers. Their mother believes they shouldn't be exposed to the corrupting influence of public school teachers, but they are being taught very little of value unless they plan to become forest school teachers themselves. They are 14 now, and I doubt they would pass any GCSE's. Maybe I am weird, but I don't think that is preparing your child for real life. Plus they have paid a fortune in fees and fuel costs.

With my DS, I put him in a mid-size, semi-rural mainstream school that has a really good reputation. The school itself is in a rural setting that is a few minutes drive from the nearest city suburb. So it has a mix of kids from the surrounding countryside and city. The principal literally stands at the gate each morning and greets the kids by name and takes turns to have a chat with them. They give my DS learning support to help him catch up on everything he missed in the Steiner and work through his anxiety. He was especially anxious at first about any excitement in his class as in the Steiner that would devolve into violent scuffles with some of the boys that the teacher thought was just a natural expression of their emotions. They would literally be down on the ground punching and kicking each other. DS naturally hated that kind of behaviour but in his final months there was recovering from an illness that had caused damage to his spleen and the teacher refused to take it seriously when I explained how important it was that he not get pushed or hit in the abdomen.

His current school are great and I'll never stop regretting my choice to send him to the Steiner. I had done my research. I knew there were dodgy aspects to Steiner but I specifically trusted the people who were running the school. I believed they were good, sensible people with great intentions and the ability to offer the positives of Steiner while leaving the kooky stuff out. I was so, so wrong about it. The one comfort that I take from it is that a number of families pulled their children out when they realised what was going on.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but there are lots of other small schools which don't follow the same sort of rigid ideologies as Steiner/ Monti, I've only
had experience of schools in London and Devon so not much help to you but they've been brilliant for our children (one very shy and anxious). If you look up 'alternative schools' 'small schools' 'child centred learning' and 'democratic schools' you might find something near you. To me it's been a much more common sense approach where they strip back the nonsense and make an effort to know the child and provide accordingly.

I went to a Montessori primary in the Netherlands and loved it. We absolutely did learn spelling, maths and language, but the key thing was that you could work at your own pace. Lots of space for creativity too.

I wouldn't go near a Steiner school if it were the last school on earth, they believe bullying should be left to happen because it's karma from a previous life working itself out.

If you're Edinburgh, I think the Steiner school here is OK. I know families with DC there and they're really happy. It's too crunchy for my taste, but I've not heard any of the really out-there Steiner stuff being repeated. It's not state though, it's private - though significantly lower priced than the rest of Edinburgh's private schools.

If money isn't a barrier and you are in Edinburgh (two massive assumptions there I know) look at Cliftonhall.

We do live in Edinburgh, that's interesting about the Edinburgh Steiner. It's not that money is no object, but I do have a very kind family member willing to pay fees for Montessori / Steiner, but I don't think they would stretch to something like Cliftonhall, although I don't think more academic or sporty schools would work as the pressure of mainstream at the moment is a struggle.

The thing is, you won't hear it from the families who stick it out. They will all insist it's going great. I know some families who have stayed in my DS's old school. I know when I was part one of them that they had serious issues that they were worried about. But when they decided to stick it out after bullying came to light, they changed how they talked to me about it. They tell me it's all great now. Yet one of the mothers who pulled her child out a few months after I left, said she volunteered there in the last few weeks so she could get a feel for it herself and she said it was worse than I had described.

Humans are capable of scary levels of cognitive dissonance. When they are making a decision to do something against mainstream, they can become absolutely determined to focus on the good and ignore the bad. I know I did it for too long with the school. I could see the negative changes in my DS's personality and instead of stopping and thinking about when he had changed and why that might be. I told myself that we were so lucky he wasn't in mainstream school and was getting this amazing chance to be in a school that cherished his differences and let him be himself. That he would never be able to manage in a mainstream. The further he retreated into himself, the happier I was that he was in this amazing, special school. The families who pulled their kids out said they had the same experience of seeing negative changes in their children and experiencing relief they were in this special school rather than trying to navigate mainstream. It took an awful lot for me to accept that I had made a very wrong choice, accept that it was a bad decision and let go of all of my previously held convictions. So I can understand why other people have just dug in further rather than accepting that they were wrong about something.

Right up until two weeks before I saw something so bad that I had to report it and then keep DS out of the classroom because he would have suffered reprisals. I would have told you it was the best school ever. In hindsight I had been having doubts for a few months at that point but I was absolutely putting my best face forward. So I honestly wouldn't believe anything about a school like that, that the parents of kids attending say. Sure their kids could be getting a fabulous education and having an amazing nourishing experience. But the odds, considering what is so very common in Steiners, is that they are not but everyone involved is convincing themselves that it's great because it means so much to them that it is.

Could you home educate? Education can look however works for your child rather than needing to fit into a box

My brother and sister (much younger than me) went to a steiner school. Good in lots of ways for them, but they did struggle when they eventually had to move back to the normal educational system for college. So it may be worth thinking long term as well as short term.

DD goes to Steiner and loves it. All schools are different and just as there are good and bad state and private schools, there will be good and bad Steiner. DD is dyslexic and has great support as do two other SEN in her class.

The leavers do well, some to Oxbridge, some to other universities, some have started their own businesses, and yes, some don’t achieve great success, but doesn’t that apply to most schools?

The most important thing for me is that DD is not made to feel lesser because of her issues. The school also dealt extremely well with a bullying issue, now fully resolved by the children with adult support. A few Tiger mums have moved their children to more academically focused schools and that was the right decision for them, particularly if a child isn’t a self starter.

When I see criticism of Steiner schools it bears no relation to my experience or that of the other mums. Most schools will offer a taster day so you can see if it is something your child would benefit from.

@BuffaloCauliflower home education would be problematic as I am a single parent who works, although I did look into online schools. Just worried about socialisation as he doesn't have the confidence for extra curricular activities at the moment...

@tall1234 that absolutely would make it harder, but not impossible, especially with a child that age, you might find drop off groups in your area. Do you work at home at all or always out of the home? Some deschooling time may well help their anxiety. Maybe join some local home ed groups and see what others say

Yes i think i know the school you are on about. Absolutely awful, multiple safeguarding issues.
Also op read up on Steiner and SEN some of his original beliefs were absolutely horrible!

I don't recommend Steiner. Apart from safeguarding issues, bullying and racism being uncovered in some of the schools, there are other issues. Teaching is very rigid. For instance, art can only be done in a certain way, so it has been very frustrating for an artistic child we know who still attends. Teaching is very much copying off the board and the work has to be decorated in a certain way in the child's copybook. I expect schools vary in how much they stick to the methods, but in traditional Steiner there is very little room for individuality. The schools near us, which we briefly attended, has multiple disenchanted parents. Complaints vary from bizarre admin procedures where information is lost, to bullying and lack of safeguarding and a refusal to allow children any creative individual expression. I would say there is an even darker side to some of the philosophies, but I think other poster are probably addressing that.

It's been a long time since I have seen a Steiner thread as I don't visit the primary board anymore but I remember reading some horrific accounts and threads were taken down as they were thhreatening to sue the site.

Wow, this is all very useful to know... I am surprised. I do know a couple of adults who went there and seem okay, but a bit alternative. That would have been in the 80s/90s though of course.

I went to a Steiner school. I had a very positive experience but obviously, as a child, wasn't aware of the philosophies behind it. Most of my classmates have done very well academically and in their professions. Lots of doctors and engineers. I think that sort of education tends to attract a certain type of middle class parent so the children would probably have done well wherever they went but I have very idyllic, carefree childhood memories of school.