To think that people have become completely incapable....

[memorial]

Ok so I'm a GP (yes yes I know I could be anybody) and have been for over 20 years.
But bloody hell our society have become completely and utter incapable of any kind of self care or self responsibility. I have never known anything like the kind of demand we are facing. And I'm sorry most of it is just complete and utter nonsense. Over and over again.
Genuinely ill and needy people are being lost in the deluge. It's absolutely impossible to offer any kind of decent care. And we are losing doctors, nurses and staff rapidly. And we cannot recruit. It's not about pay It's about absolutely ridiculous workload and risk.
Yes the system is broken yes we need more of everything.
But every single thing does not need GP hand holding. It doesn't need 2 page complaints because you didn't get what you wanted when you wanted it.
Some days I just think people won't be happy until I go and wipe their arses for them.
I'm done. And it's not just me.

This thread illustrates nicely why the UK is so utterly fucked.

YANBU OP. Good luck in retirement and hope you get to it sooner rather than later. Half the people contributing to this discussion are unbearable and I’m sure they’re the same types you have to see every day. I don’t know how you put up with them. The lack of respect and the sense of entitlement is horrifying.

The NHS will continue to bleed talent and experience like yours and the situation will worsen. It’s really sad.

The problem is everyone thinks they aren't that person.

They also tend to think (covid) it's effecting me and what effects my life is the most important thing in the world, therefore my needs is above everyone else's with realistically no real gauge on where there problems sit on the wider health issues platform.GPS see it all, the general population does not and does not wish to.

And because people have no idea why they can't see their gp they assume the gp is sitting on their hands chatting to their pals on the phone. People have gotten more selfish and less able to look after themselves and have outsourced it to the gps.

If your triggered by a post on the internet maybe get off the internet. You don't have to keep reading. It's quite simple tbh. I don't engage with forums that share stories on stillborns because I find it on the whole retriggering. I take care of my mental well-being without blaming a poster for their need to share. Those things can exist if you take ownership of your own well-being.

The distain people have for gps is in the same vein as teachers ect there used to be respect for the profession but now there's mocking, blaming ect for problems that aren't those groups of peoples fault.

I’m another who would like to thank you and the GP’s at my surgery OP. Also the three GP’s who have come back from retirement to help out because three GP’s left suddenly. The reason being obvious.

The health service, as a whole, is in a shocking state. You are not to blame for the dire workings of the NHS OP. You are catching the sh*t because those at the top are invisible. It’s pretty evident from this thread what you have to put up with, on top of your never ending work load.

Thank you for sticking around as long as you have. Most of us appreciate your help and support. Nobody will blame you if you walk out the door tomorrow, never to return. Everyone has a breaking point 💐 🍷

Is this a joke? No idea how a GP can be facing burnout, they never bloody seen patients, impossible to get an appointment. All done via telephone appointments now.
I can personally think of 4 close friends who have died from cancer in the last 5 years. All went back and forth to their GP complaining of symptoms that were dismissed. My friend had a brain tumour but was told she was just depressed for months. Lost 2 friends to bowel cancer that were told for 18 months that they just had IBS/were paranoid/should stop wasting GPs time. Your attitude stinks OP and you should quit if you're not up to the job. Problem has been since covid, too many GPS got used to not doing any work and sitting behind a desk answering telephone calls. In Wales it's still the same, they don't want to do face to face appointments.

I am just shocked about how many people view regularly seeing their doctor like its some part of their social calendar, going to a doctors for a bloody chat

I cant remember the last time I went to my doctor, I would only go if I was really feeling unwell. The last time I recall I had to wait so long for an appointment that I paid the £15 to use the online GP service and paid for my prescription privately. Didn’t go in the end.

The reason you cant see your doctor is because its full of all these bloody time wasters.

I genuinely feel for the OP. I couldn’t do the job. I think I would end up shouting at half of them, “you are wasting my time with this” you only have to watch that GP program on TV to see people going because they have a spot that needs squeezing, a cold, they just need laxatives, Calpol, so I agree with the OP, must be mind-numbing at times.

Not sure what the answer is, better care in the community probably. Some sort of separate weekly chat groups they can go to rather than the doctor, giving more authority to chemists and offering paid for online and video chat services for priority.

I agree people do need to start thinking for themselves more and as for two page complaints who has time for that? Probably the same people that complain to the BBC about a TV program they didn’t like. Devil makes work for idle hands as they say.

I guess its nice really they haven’t got anything more serious to be concerned about or have to deal with.

Thank you for posting op. I only know one gp in rl but she says the same thing. It is interesting that medical professionals are all saying the same things actually yet opening the debate unleashes such vitriol.

PP complaining about being unable to see their gp don't seem to understand that this is due to staffing and not because GPs are sitting around drinking tea with their feet up. I wonder whether this particular issue will get better or worse with this level of hate directed at them?

OP isn't complaining about genuine health needs, but about time wasters, people unwilling to act on advice to help themselves, people unwilling to wait or who cannot accept hearing the word no, people directing their frustration at the wrong people and wasting more time with spurious complaints. It's in everyone's best interests to think about how we can improve the situation.

OP, I'm a teacher. This entitlement and expectation is everywhere. We are treated like staff now by many, and children who never hear the word no or face consequences for their actions. Public-facing roles are awful right now. Most people are allowed to grumble about their job, especially anonymously, especially when trying to highlight genuine issues, but not us. People want to hear that we love our jobs and the customer - they - are always right.

Imodium. 2 every night without fail. It doesn't go away, you can't fix it. You have to manage it.

Whilst I do feel for you and understand the workload (I am NHS mental health) health anxiety is a real thing especially since covid and it is hugely deliberating to people's lives. Lots of people are ending up in psychiatric hospitals due to health anxiety. The current pace of live, the fact we had covid shoved down our throats for 2 years, the cost of living crisis and all the other doom and gloom has impacted people massively and has left people unable to cope so they probably turn to you for support and reassurance. I really think your attitude is a bit sad, maybe try and show a little understanding and kindness.

I agree with you @memorial and I've always thought that being GP must be a very very hard job. Mine are great, can always get an appt within a few days. I don't go often but I know someone like you're describing, must see their GP every month about very minor symptoms.

I spent the best part of 20 years of my career as a practice manager (various size practices from 6-20,000 pts). I completely agree. I got out about 6 years ago so I can imagine how much worse it is now.

My mum tried to see a GP about severe stomach pain a year before the covid outbreak started, she was sent home and told to take antacids, drink water, drink milk, loads of other suggestions..... the pain got much worse, she was losing weight so fast, then couldn't get another appointment for 6 mths because of lockdowns, in the end she finally got an operation and had a colostomy bag fitted... all alas far too late, she died last september and I cannot help but feel that she was fobbed off and ignored for far too long. I recently tried to get an appointment as since two bouts of covid, along with losing my mum then my job because of the state of health covid left me in, to be told by the receptionist there are people out there far sicker than you, try resting , it takes a few months to recover etc. It's been almost a year now, I can still barely walk anywhere, chest pains hard to breathe, feel soo low and useless and have no money, can barely afford to feed my son let alone myself and not seeing any way forward in this climate of price rises, I got punched out of the way at the yellow sticker counter a couple days ago and all I had the strength to do was sit on the floor in tears.

To be fair, most people were a lot more capable before you removed their support networks, employment and family ties for 2 years to “ save the NHS”

It's the midwifery service you should be angry with. Not your GP. They failed you. They should have provided an alternative service. It's not a GP service and hasn't been since 2004.

@memorial
I can't get my head round a gp saying this. If the gp took it on themselves to see the pp then they should do their job. And if a gp can't listen to a baby's heartbeat and deliver basic obstetric care then their training needs reviewing.
My dd popped into her gp surgery as she passed because her 4 week old baby was very snuffly and was breathing noisily, the receptionist rang through to ask a gp to look at the baby and relayed the message that gp's don't deal with newborns if you're worried go to A&E!
Disgraceful imo.

I do agree though that a lot of Brits need to take more responsibility for their own health.
Also gp's in the uk are expected to do so much unnecessary paperwork.
There is also a shortage of gp's in France.
In France, however, blood results are emailed to the patient with a message that everything is OK or please go to your gp.
I have my own mammogram report and x rays to take to my next routine appt.
If my gp wants me to see a consultant I can choose one and make my appointment online myself.
And if I do go to hospital when I get home a nurse will visit me on the same day at home if it's necessary.

OP I don't think you should be getting so pounded on this thread. Why are your concerns less valid because you are a GP?
I think that job would be awful, so many people, so much pressure and so much expectation that you will always be right and make the best decision every single time.
Imagine seeing so may people each day each who have a problem? It would weigh you down for sure.
Mumsnet is constantly recommending people to " see their GP". They don't have the answers to everything.
In Australia we have to pay to see a dr so maybe the entitlement isn't the same as UK but a friend who is a GP often mentions people just go in to chat.
It's a symptom of a broken down society and breakdown of community.
How we are going to recruit more doctors if this continues?
To the poster who said " how can I possibly go to the GP now after reading this?" Geez stop the drama, she wasn't talking about you.

So sorry @MibsXX
I hope things improve for you.

Ironically a gp who fobbed me off when I had a prolapsed disc fobbed himself off too when he thought he had muscle pain. He actually had cancer and died within a year,

There was a thread the other week about a woman who had no way of getting to hospital win labour because neither the op or her DH drove.

Instead of saying getting a taxi or public transport (she said no to that because it's too expensive). She was told to just phone 999 for an ambulance 🤦‍♀️

Don't even get me started on the thread about nhs staff deliberately keeping patients awake

I do notice lots of people going for unnecessary things. They have a cold and book an apt. I've asked why they are going, they just have a cold and they have said "I always see the GP when I'm sick" or "I just want to check" when there are no secondary or worrying symptoms. A friend blew their nose the other day and apparently it was a funny colour. They thought they should see a doctor... I think the grey area of possible hidden illness and getting reassurance could be vastly reduced with some common sense and self care/home monitoring.

@Cognacsoft the midwifery services campaigned to do all of that work.

Can't do it if it's not in their remit.

Thank you OP for everything you have put in to an overwhelmed and falling apart system. Good luck to you in whatever you need to do from here.

Our GPs are just great. We have three babies and when we really need to ask the question (like at the the weekend when one had an allergic response to a virus) they always find time to ring. We know every appointment is booked out and they are carving out the time. We understand that every single appointment is booked because GPs have been sort of wrangled into position as the front door for every single bit of the NHS, while people are aging and living with serious disease and there just isn't enough room in the system.

It's frightening for all of us, thinking we might be the unlucky ones where something is missed, but I have family who are GPs and the weight they carry is too much. The very best to you.

There is always a horrified reaction when it is suggested that patients should pay towards their medical appointments but this thread illustrates why it might be worth considering.

If everyone had obligatory means tested state-subsidised health insurance which was managed by government regulated non-profit organizations, as they are in many countries in Europe, which is totally unlike the American model, then many of the problems we see being discussed here, would disappear over night. Those with chronic conditions and people on low incomes would still get 99% of their treatment free, but everyone contributes an amount proportionate to their income.

And yet there is always an outcry when this is suggested but people would value the health service a little bit more of they had to contribute towards it. My Spanish friends take pride in contributing towards their own health. Why not they say when it is one of the most important aspects of life? They don't understand the UK mentality where people are prepared to pay thousands of pounds to the vet or to the builder renovating their kitchen and yet aren't prepared to pay £5 towards seeing a doctor!

People would be incentivised to take care of themselves more, they would turn up to their appointments and wouldn't be so inclined to trash A & E departments. I lived with a student who cut her leg badly which was treated by the NHS and she missed her follow up appt to go and have the stitches out because she was gaming fhs! She then made another appointment and missed that too! Two appointments lost that other people in real need could not use. She eventually went to A &E to have the stitches removed BC she thought they "were starting to go red" and were "getting infected". They weren't, she just CBA to get herself together in the morning for an early hosp ap and being treated late at night in A& E suited her better.

There are people on Mumsnet who would not be able to afford any sort of healthcare and it is those people who should be properly supported by the state. Imho, the rest of the population who are on Mumsnet and talk about spending £800 on their hair annually, or who happily spend £200 and above on a handbag or £60 on a face cream, should have a long hard look at their priorities imho.

A lot of these answers explain why our services are failing. I have worked in primary care for nearly 20 years and have seen big shifts in the attitude of the patients in this time. Some people don’t seem to want to look after themselves and only want to be looked after. It’s untenable and eventually everything is going to collapse. I think GPs have a really difficult job to do and have to have so much knowledge of so many different things. There is so much information out there for people to access, better pharmacy services and other positions within primary care that should take the pressure off the GPs so they can deal with really urgent medical situations. After covid mental health care has been abysmal but there are just not enough services to help them, especially in our area. This definitely needs to improve but it isn’t the fault of the GPs.

Completely agree with you OP. I work for 111 and get people phoning up that have made no effort whatsoever to treat their symptoms. People with back pain that have not even taken paracetamol becuse they don't like taking tablets. People who have had one episode of diarrhoea , demanding to speak to a Dr, parents phoning up becuse their child has a sore throat but is otherwise absolutely fine. It's unbelievable. Lot's of people are unwilling to accept responsibility for their own health. Yet little old Doris who has had crushing chest pain for 2 days didn't want to bother us. It is interesting that those people who work in healthcare are agreeing with you. People who don't work in healthcare really don't have a clue about what's going on.

I'm a teacher, and I agree!

@Whoopwhoop22 who’s ending up in psychiatric hospitals due to health anxiety?
the threshold for admission - voluntary or involuntary- is so high that I seriously doubt a single person is in psychiatric hospital due to health anxiety or even psychosomatic delusions