To think that people have become completely incapable....

[memorial]

Ok so I'm a GP (yes yes I know I could be anybody) and have been for over 20 years.
But bloody hell our society have become completely and utter incapable of any kind of self care or self responsibility. I have never known anything like the kind of demand we are facing. And I'm sorry most of it is just complete and utter nonsense. Over and over again.
Genuinely ill and needy people are being lost in the deluge. It's absolutely impossible to offer any kind of decent care. And we are losing doctors, nurses and staff rapidly. And we cannot recruit. It's not about pay It's about absolutely ridiculous workload and risk.
Yes the system is broken yes we need more of everything.
But every single thing does not need GP hand holding. It doesn't need 2 page complaints because you didn't get what you wanted when you wanted it.
Some days I just think people won't be happy until I go and wipe their arses for them.
I'm done. And it's not just me.

I too agree with you 100% OP.

People need to start taking more responsible for their health, a pharmacist, and the NHS website should be first port of call. For example, a work colleague last week said they’f rang the Dr for a rash on their leg, get to the pharmacist ffs!

We need some kind of information programme so ALL people use their initiative!

So sorry you feel that way. In my part of the country we have an excellent GP service. The GP phones you in the first instance, then makes an appointment if they think it warrants it, otherwise gives advice over the phone. On the occasions I have been in to the surgery there are few people there and waiting times are short. Is that not a good way to weed out the coughs/colds/vomiting on day 1? I think the problem with the NHS being free is that like many other free things people don't value it.

I work with people who ring in sick with a headache. I once got in trouble for telling them to take some paracetamol and come to work. They complained about me.
Nobody is allowed to.tell.obese people they are obese. "But its not their fault".
Too much nanny state. Tony Blairs government was notorious for it
.
People can't seem to think for themselves anymore. Friend of mine felt sick and vomited one morning. She told me she'd rang the doctors surgery. She couldn't understand why I was laughing at her.
Th NHS needs a complete overhaul from the top down but no governme t has the balls to sack all the useless management and bring in some top brains from the private sector

OP what do you think has caused this? Is it all just since covid, or was it happening before that? And what do you think the solution is?

I do, people are bombarded with lots of worldwide stories of how professionals were wrong and missed things, how there are conspiracies and mistrust of infrastructure.
On a personal level, people often write about conflicts they have had or how they have 'put people right'
People with no expertise are able to comment on research as if it is opinion, making them feel that their thoughts have equal weighting with years of research

It's so awful right now, for everyone involved.

I work in mental health, and people are really struggling to book appointments for medication reviews and other health problems. A lot of people want f2f appointments but can't get them, but don't feel comfortable opening up over the phone.

I have no doubt that many people go to the GP for very minor things that probably do not require a GP, but the problem really is the lack of GPs and resources, not the people who are using the service. I would hate to see people not going to the GP out of fear of being a 'time waster' when they really need to be seen.

Health care is fucked. It's awful for the people using it, and those working within it. NHS workers/GPs are burning out and I can't see how it is sustainable.

I'm not sure why the OP is getting such a hard time here.

Isn't it pretty common belief that people are incapable of taking basic responsibility for themselves these days?

For all those who think this problem is about individuals being silly/selfish/not taking personal responsibility/whatever, can I ask, what do you think has happened in, say, the past 10-15 years to change human nature so drastically? Why were people not so silly and selfish 15 years ago? It can’t be because they’ve all got soft due to the government looking after them too much, since 15 years ago there was far more state support available than there is now. So what’s happened?

not healthcare but I work in HR. When I first started in the earlier 2000s, say you took someone on and it didn’t work out after a few months you’d take them in, give them a week’s notice and send them on their way, and they’d generally shrug their shoulders and move on. Now it’s all demanding to know why, accusations of discrimination, why has this happened to me and not x,y Z, subject access requests, etc. I think a lot of people have a misplaced belief in their own importance and that they are something special, a sense of entitlement, and an often also misplaced understanding of their “rights”.

OR READ WHAT HAS ACTUALLY BEEN SAID
this is the exact problem I am talking about
Despite a professional person clarifying a lot what is meant, you think you are right

You DO come across that way though

What an utterly depressing thread. When we treat the people we need poorly, doctors, teachers, nurses. Those people will leave their jobs. We have a huge shortage of experienced GP and as they all retire as quickly as they can, we’re going to really struggle to recruit and train replacements.

But surely you realise they only say that to absolve themselves of responsibility so they won't be sued. They don't really think most people need to go and see their GP before meditating or doing an online Pilates class or doing intermittent fasting.

We have to be able to assess reasonable risk, tell the difference between mild illnesses and persistent, longer term or acute issues that require investigation. We have to be able to work out ourselves whether a series of exercises or a new diet are dangerous fads, or just extremely mild risks that you undertake slowly.

@Kerrrmieee but surely common sense would tell you one headache that’s relieved with painkillers is just that. If you start having them frequently then it’s worth getting it checked out. That’s just common sense to judge it. You can have an honest conversation with your GP. ‘Hey listen I’ve been having unusual headaches and it’s been going on for a few weeks, or they are lasting longer or pain relief isn’t working’. The OP is right when she says some people will just book
an appointment (and we see them in A&E) for things that they can deal with at home. We had someone come in for a full body scan because a bee flew by them and
maybe they swallowed it. We’ve had people come in with an hour of feeling unwell, vomited once but don’t want to put up with the inconvenience. It’s those people she’s generally targeting because they are taking the appointments people actually need.

yep A&E is the same people there that don't need A&E at all

Also EVERYTHING is giving the mental health card nowadays - this that must be mental health how about entitled or lazy sometimes! Quick fix.
Woman on tv last night moaning she couldn't afford to heat house and landlord hadn't put carpets down! WTF she sat there on her huge ass with large acrylics nails moaning. No one seems to look to themselves to try to sort ANYTHING at all its always up to someone else.

Yes, I agree.

💐for @memorial

Re the point above about people in other European countries being more healthy,

I don’t know about all European countries but I’ve heard we have an awful work/life balance compared to countries like France and Italy etc.

They seem to prioritise having down time and cooking from scratch and taking time to eat their meals and I know most places in France don’t work on Sundays or after certain times in the day.
I watched a programme where they ordered something and it took almost a month to come, whereas we’d want next day delivery.

Many of us also struggle to find time to have down time or exercise enough and we end up getting a lot of processed food because we don’t have the time to cook at lunchtimes, compared to other countries.

I think our lifestyles do have a lot to answer for and why we are much unhealthier than many European countries.

@memorial people are giving you a hard time because a lot of what you say is true and maybe they have done this too?

I think it’s to do with the fact that we are not educated about our own bodies and how to manage them. We are told that we need drugs to fix things and that this, that and the other seemingly innocuous symptom could be the symptom of something serious (and it’s absolutely right to get these checked out of course!). It frightens people as we have limited knowledge about how our bodies really function. I don’t think we can really blame the individual but the whole set up right from childhood. We are reliant on others to tell us about ourselves.

I do agree with you op (former GP receptionist here). However GPs need to be a fair bit stronger with people wasting their time IME.

The GPs I used to work for were vocal about Mrs Smith being a time waster who came every week with ridiculous issues but would they say anything to her face? No of course not. Don't whinge behind their backs if you're not prepared to say it kindly but firmly to their face!

For what its worth op i have always had great service from my GP practice, yes they are busy but seem to have a system of contact that works for-us so far. I do think some people sometimes have a very selfish outlook and sense of entitlement to getting what they think they want with no thought for personal responsibility. If I feel unwell or have some other medical issue i will do a bit of research or ask my chemist for advice before deciding if it is serious enough to need medical intervention or whether some rest, over the counter medication or some exercise / change in habits/ food/ drink etc is perhaps worth trying first. So a big thank you from me for persevering as a GP in especially fraught times, so much bitterness on this thread but where would we be without people like you.

@gamerchick do you do this?? I have 2 friends that suffer with IBS. One who uses Imodium when things are bad & he has to go out for a few hours (unable to access toilets) but then he 'can't go' for a few days after and consequently gets bad stomach pain. He's diabetic & takes other medication (cilitopram & gout plus diabetes drugs). I'm not sure he's even be able to take Imodium daily.

the other one I could suggest trying it, she gets bad bouts of it, no idea why, she's got some things she avoids, but mostly eats 'normally'.

In Ireland you don't get free GP care unless you're on a really low income. As a result it's not really abused.
A few years ago free GP care was brought in for children under 4 or 5. I can't remember the exact age. GPs then found that loads of appointment times were being taken up by parents bringing kids with the sniffles.

If something is free, people will unfortunately abuse it.

It's not just Social Media

As a Paramedic we see a lot of unnecessary work due to "first aiders", the patients/ parents delegate repsponisibilty for something minor that could be dealt with at home/via pharmacy/ at minor injuries, to someone who has a few days of very simplistic training, no actual experience and no authority to make a decision, so they call 999 or tell them to see their GP when it is in no way necessary.

The amount of times we get called to "check them over" is crazy. Cars are safer than ever, yet people want to be checked after even minor impacts. Care homes (not all, there are some great ones) call for every patient that ends up on the floor to be "checked over" before they can be picked up, and the staff don't like it when you tell them that the patient is fine, so they are now safe to get them up whilst we completed our paperwork!

There seems to a an abdication of personal responsibility simultanously with an increase in litigation, which makes for risk aversion and ineffiencicy and it puts a massive strain on to primary care, ambulance services and A&E. When all these services are already strained and could be using their limited resources for the patients that desperately and genuinely need it.

A loss of knowledge and skills, and self reliance.

Different example. My children think I am amazing when I sew their buttons back on. My mother could make dresses. I can see buttons. My children can't do anything.

Healthcare: my mother would self treat most things, I self treat some things. My children seem to think I am being abusive if I refuse to take them to the GP and instead use something from the pharmacy. They are anxious because they think 'experts' are required. And that's after being raised in my house, where we don't pander to that kind of thing!