To think that people have become completely incapable....

[memorial]

Ok so I'm a GP (yes yes I know I could be anybody) and have been for over 20 years.
But bloody hell our society have become completely and utter incapable of any kind of self care or self responsibility. I have never known anything like the kind of demand we are facing. And I'm sorry most of it is just complete and utter nonsense. Over and over again.
Genuinely ill and needy people are being lost in the deluge. It's absolutely impossible to offer any kind of decent care. And we are losing doctors, nurses and staff rapidly. And we cannot recruit. It's not about pay It's about absolutely ridiculous workload and risk.
Yes the system is broken yes we need more of everything.
But every single thing does not need GP hand holding. It doesn't need 2 page complaints because you didn't get what you wanted when you wanted it.
Some days I just think people won't be happy until I go and wipe their arses for them.
I'm done. And it's not just me.

@Quincythequince that was @Meseekslookatme with high blood pressure. I’m reading the thread backwards and just came across it.

Haven’t RTFT but have read all the OP’s posts and just wanted to say that I totally agree with you on your point, @memorial , regarding people in the UK seeming not to be able to take any responsibility for themselves or their health.

Everything that goes wrong seems to be someone else’s fault. We can’t move in the UK for (very simplified, so the message gets through to everyone) advice on keeping healthy and well (five a day/regular exercise/ cut back on sugar etc etc) - and yet despite being spoonfed this very easy-to-understand information, we’re a nation of sedentary fatties with rocketing rates of type 2 diabetes (entirely preventable disease) that costs the NHS a crazy number of millions every year.

In Europe with my DC this summer in several locations (not the Costas): they all commented on how nobody was overweight and how fit and healthy the locals looked, even the elderly people. My heart sank once we arrived back at a UK airport to see so many unhealthy looking Brits. Why don’t we, as a nation, look after ourselves? No wonder @memorial is at her wits’ end, as a GP.

I completely agree with you OP. I'm a teacher so not as high stakes of course, but we see a lot of parents who require support and are reluctant to do the most basic of parenting, or expect that their child does the most basic of tasks like actually turning up for an exam, expecting that the exam board will give them leeway.
The 'highly trained professional' has gone out of the window as lots of people have read things on Facebook that bear no scrutiny. Or the media scaremongers and parents simply wont believe us (currently dealing with lots of emails wanting details of the school 3 day week despite us not ever discussing it or it even being in the pipeline it was on the front of the Daily Mail so it must be true) Trying to discuss anything on here is hard as it becomes dramatic bingo "so I had my leg cut off should I have just put a plaster on it?'
People are wilfully obtuse on here, and In real life people are more selfish, lacking in personal responsibility or common sense. Social media has put everyone as the star of their own life and so often I have conversations with parents that I can see are being had to be reported back later dramatically on social media /with friends etc

You’re not being unreasonable

I work in a different field and I have so many clients who want something from us and go to theIr gp over and over again to get extra into for us to give them things. It’s so wrong.

I don’t know if there has been any mention of this but I think one reason that people want to see GPS about minor illnesses and ailments is that there is tremendous pressure not to take time off work sick. People don’t want to wait for their virus to take its course, they want to feel better straight away.

I’m so sorry that this is your working day/life OP. How tedious- I’m not sure why people are arguing against points that you simply haven’t made.
It’s a valid question- why are a huge number of people not administering basic first aid/at home care? Not for serious issues- but colds, temporary sore limbs etc.
We have two friends who demand doctors appointments for themselves/their children immediately at the slightest sniffle or minor illness “just to be safe”, with the expectation that they must never be ill or must be made better immediately. I always stare incredulously and suggest it’s not needed yet, their kids are at school, they will get colds/stomach bugs! but they never listen. These two families alone probably take up 30 odd doctors appointments a year for non-reasons (day 1 of slight temp, they’ve been sick once, they’ve had a headache for half an hour etc.) they’re there every two weeks it seems, so I can well believe your days are filled with similar queries. I can’t work out whether they have huge unresolved health anxieties or whether they just have very self-centred, why wouldn’t this service see me and make me better immediately, why should I suffer (this very mild ailment) mindsets.

I actually think this does warrant an apology. There’s enough non-clinical staff to either give a quick call/sms etc to let people know their appointment won’t go ahead. I doubt the complainant would have expected the consultant to keep the appointment in the circumstances but wanted acknowledgement that a better system should be in place.
Not quite the same but my vets often have to reschedule to go to theatre to treat a more unwell animal. The receptionist gets straight on the phone to the people with appointments. to my knowledge no one says stop the emergency surgery on the dog who has been hit by a car, they say thanks for letting me know and either rebook or look at their calendar. I’d be annoyed if I got there and they couldn’t see me because firstly the appointments tend not to be at convenient times so I have come away from work, it is often painful lugging a heavy carrier, can be stressful, incurs costs etc. I’m sure you get annoyed about no shows, and this is literally just the shoe on the other foot. Getting someone non-clinical to either call or send a SMS is a basic courtesy and if not done, yes an apology is in order

YANBU. Country of hypochondriacs. Nobody should be going to the GP for a one off headache, or a sore throat that has lasted a couple of days, or a pulled muscle. The angry posters on here probably do though!

You’re missing the point here. The reason you can’t get an appointment is that people are overwhelming their primary care practice with things they could go to a pharmacy and manage at home for.

The wider structural issues are certainly not helping but people who go to a GP because they’ve been unwell for a few days, or have a health issue which is lifestyle related but don’t address the lifestyle issue because essentially they don’t want to change their pattern of behaviour are a huge part of the issue.

I think a couple of things. I think we’re dealing with the mental and physical effects of covid and will be for the foreseeable. Many people who had covid, even if they don’t count themselves as having long covid as such, will find their health hasn’t quite got back to where it was. I’m one of them. And this is so poorly understood and it manifests in all sorts of physical and mental symptoms which might look minor taken singly but which together add up to a hugely reduced quality of life. And then add on the mental and physical effects of less exercise, more isolation, etc.

Also, as with so many things complained about on here, it’s the effects of 12 years of Tory government, and austerity. The community services and places that used to pick up and support those who were struggling simply aren’t there any more. Many of us predicted years ago that the NHS, as the last public service left standing that people were able to access directly, would end up picking up the slack. And, I’m not sure which way the causality goes (probably both ways) but the nasty individualism and the blaming everyone for their own problems and misery while offering no sense of support or communal cohesion makes everyone feel worse and worse, while providing the fig leaf for demolishing public services further. I have no idea what the answer is, but I daily mourn the country I remember as a young woman in the 00s, when there were public services available to help and when it was generally accepted that this was a good thing.

I couldn't agree with you more OP. I can't comment on the medical, but the lack of self care awareness astounds me.
On a recent thread posters were outraged that doctors suggest walking as a treatment! Moving more, eating less and drinking more water are fairly basic things, yet so many people around me seem to refuse to consider them, and instead expect a doctor to give a magic pill!

Agree with every word.

The public here are allergic to personal responsibility - everything is always somebody else’s fault, or down to MH.

You should be devastated. The scenario that OP is describing if she leaves happened in a 12000 pop (plus surrounding villages) town 18 months ago near me. There were NO permenant GPs in that town, NONE, then the Locums stop coming, then they started begging Advanced Practitoners from other towns to temporarily go over, but they declined because they feared for their registration due to the precarious situation.

As a paramedic I was then going to the patients in this town, all I could do was refer to GP out of hours/ suggest they called them in the evening or weekend, but they were overrun and 23 miles away, in the end I started filling in Safeguarding forms if the patients who couldn't get seen and met the criteria for Vulnerability. These included a diabetic with Mental health problems who had run out of medication a month previously and had an out of date repeat prescription, not small problems.

So yes, you should be devastated that this could be about to happen in a GP surgery near you.

Absolute nonsense, this has neither been said nor insinuated by the OP.

OP I totally agree with you and also the poster who mentions schools where it’s just the same.

i think social media has an awful lot to answer for - and a government that does what it can to make people despise experts, especially those who work in the public sector.

I also agree that the Pandora’s Box is not going to be closed sadly - the rise of the aggressively entitled continues apace and the haemorrhaging of experienced staff goes alongside it.

For all those who think this problem is about individuals being silly/selfish/not taking personal responsibility/whatever, can I ask, what do you think has happened in, say, the past 10-15 years to change human nature so drastically? Why were people not so silly and selfish 15 years ago? It can’t be because they’ve all got soft due to the government looking after them too much, since 15 years ago there was far more state support available than there is now. So what’s happened?

Funnily enough, I've just been reading a thread about a mum wondering whether or not to take a child with a high temperature on a holiday flight.
One piece of advice was "ring your GP" so I do wonder how many times people do that kind of thing.

When I hear GP horror stories on here I think I live in a parallel universe. I am fortunate to live in an area where we have an excellent GP practice. I am fostering a 4 year old boy who has a couple of health issues and I heve always been offered a same day appointment for him, even during covid. the GPs have explained to me in detail how to mange his condition and the preventative measures I can use. I just can't praise them enough. I feel totally supported by them and they will spend 20 minutes with him if they need to. No rushing us out after 5 minutes.

Agree with @crochetmonkey74 that there are many “wilfully obtuse” posters here who are just refusing to see why the OP may be feeling the way she is.

I hear you OP. People misuse the NHS and I think a lot of it comes from lack of education, misinformation and general complacency about a service that’s free at the point of use. You do a great job, I can see how exhausting and hard work in is for all who work in the NHS and something needs to be done, you all deserve better treatment and better pay.

Something I think would help people is having regular check ups on a yearly basis. I have noticed that people often feel guilty to waste GPs time and wait until things become really problematic or don’t feel on top of their healthcare or have appropriate knowledge on their issues and how to manage them. Surely it would ensure people stay healthier and issues could be picked up earlier before they become problematic? Also with kids, in countries like Germany and US you generally see a paediatrician? We probably don’t have the resources to operate this way but it seems much more efficient to me.

I lucky that I have a very good GP practice, can get an appointment for myself or my child when needed, they’re empathetic and they have good awareness of women’s health and mental health. However, I was previously had a very bad practice, the GPs were condescending and a couple gave me very bad outdated advice in mental health. The difference in service was like night and day yet the two practices are not much distance apart. I wonder why does the standard vary so much?

I suspect it's neither the GP's fault or the public's fault.

This internet has a lot to answer for. Almost every time I've tried to find an answer to a minor ailment the written advice has been vague, non committal and ended with "see your GP if it continues".

Every time I've ever tried to get some information about a new exercise (e.g. taking up running) it's been "check with your GP before you start".

Every time I've looked up how diet might help, it's been "check with your GP".

People who might try to be more self sufficient are being told to go to their GP instead. It's just ridiculous.

On the other hand, we all know GPs are being pushed to take on more and more and more with less time. Talking to someone about knee pain for the umpteenth time is less likely to be frustrating if you only have a reasonable number of patients to see that day and plenty of time allocated to them. I strongly suspect GPs 50 years ago got the same mix of patients: just far less of them so it was a 'nice easy' chat to talk about very minor problems.

And now Truss's great idea is that people go to the GP for a prescription for money off their energy bills! As if!

OP's perspective is surely one we should be listening to?

We seem incapable of having a nuanced and evidence-based national conversation about our NHS and how we can improve it. It seems that 'Free at the point of delivery' is no longer working (certainly with current funding levels) and one of the factors in that is a lack of individual responsibility for health, amongst a significant part of the patient population.

An American style healthcare system is not the only alternative. But we seem intent on ignoring a third way, a system where those that can afford it pay for their GP visits or hospital treatments and those who can't are supported.

The NHS is not sacred and nor should it be run into the ground and privatised. No model will be perfect, but something needs to change, because if you take a good look around you, next time you're on the high street, do we look like a healthy nation?

@Violinist64 but your earache wasn’t ‘simple’ was it? That’s the difference, you said yourself it was excruciating. There are lots of parents who rush to see someone with an hour of pain claiming it’s awful and their child has no temp and is racing around the waiting room like you wouldn’t believe. So no yours wasn’t a simple earache!

@BigChesterDraws

its not patronising, it's just descriptive. We're going to lose our ability to be descriptive when anything other than 'A person' is said to be an ism or patronising etc.

Sorry NRTFT but I completely agree with you.

I couldn’t get an appointment for 3 weeks and I ended up needing an ambulance and having a hospital stay (costing money, taking up staff time and resources, taking a bed etc) all for something that I needed antibiotics for from a 10 minute gp appointment.

I know I’m not the only one as reading threads on here people just can’t get an appointment so are needing to go to A&E and the A&Es are almost at breaking point themselves.

When I was sent to hospital I explained why I hadn’t seen my gp and the lady said it’s because the gp’s are not doing theirs jobs and just telling people to go to A&E over the phone instead of seeing them and diagnosing them themselves.

I read a couple of days ago that a lady had to wait 20 hours for an ambulance and then spent another 14 hours inside the ambulance as there were no beds.

It’s scary, our entire health care needs sorting out.
Something needs to be done asap.
This is our main priority and I don’t know why the government aren’t doing more to sort it.