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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that people have become completely incapable....

1000 replies

memorial · 24/08/2022 00:11

Ok so I'm a GP (yes yes I know I could be anybody) and have been for over 20 years.
But bloody hell our society have become completely and utter incapable of any kind of self care or self responsibility. I have never known anything like the kind of demand we are facing. And I'm sorry most of it is just complete and utter nonsense. Over and over again.
Genuinely ill and needy people are being lost in the deluge. It's absolutely impossible to offer any kind of decent care. And we are losing doctors, nurses and staff rapidly. And we cannot recruit. It's not about pay It's about absolutely ridiculous workload and risk.
Yes the system is broken yes we need more of everything.
But every single thing does not need GP hand holding. It doesn't need 2 page complaints because you didn't get what you wanted when you wanted it.
Some days I just think people won't be happy until I go and wipe their arses for them.
I'm done. And it's not just me.

OP posts:
shazzybazzy34 · 24/08/2022 08:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AngelinaFibres · 24/08/2022 08:11

tiredandstripey · 24/08/2022 00:19

YANBU. I was in A&E not long ago with a very very poorly DD and someone had brought their 8-9 year old in because she had a sore throat and (as she told the receptionist) “when I looked there’s a lump and I’m worried it’s throat cancer and I’m not taking any chances with my daughter when it comes to cancer”. I promise you I’m not making this up. The most frustrating part was that a) the receptionist was clearly not allowed to tell her to go away and b) the triage nurse also wasn’t allowed to tell her this either. She saw an actual real life doctor with these concerns.

My friend took her daughter to A and E during first lockdiwn because she couldn't get a GP to see her daughter face to face. She had a persistent cough. No other symptoms. The first nurse she saw was dismissive and rude.; if it wasn't covid they weren't interested. She was given a scan. Turned out she had a huge and very aggressive tumour on her chest wall which had collapsed one lung completely . Another week and it would have collapsed the other lung and she would have died. She has just finished 2 years of chemo. Something small is not always small.

Nidan2Sandan · 24/08/2022 08:11

It might be worth pointing out here @memorial

Schools - my sons secondary will make all sickness as unauthorised absence unless accompanied by a GP note. My daughters secondary school marks all sickness as authorised. Ergo, parents at school 1 with their kids run of the mill cold cant risk too many unauthorised days and the fall out. So off to the GP they go.

Jobs - many wont pay unless employees get a sick note. No self certification for 7 days allowed, sick note or no wages. So off to the GP they go.

Housing - you want to increase your banding for help to move? Better go to the GP as housing needs a letter saying how being overcrowded or a victim of ASB/DV is affecting them. Cant just take their word for it. So off to the GP they go.

Disability- the constant need to prove to the DWP that you are, indeed, still disabled lest they cut you off. Off to the GP you go.

A million reasons we shouldn't rely on GPs to provide evidence of every single little life issue.

Quincythequince · 24/08/2022 08:12

memorial · 24/08/2022 08:07

Almost certainly not a doctor though. Non doctor hospital HCP buying into the anti GP narrative. The worst kind.

Agreed.
I am a Doctor OP, no longer work in the NHS, and I completely agree with you.

But you get called cold, unfeeling and generally abused when there’s the slightest expectation of people actually helping themselves just a little bit more, and not for example relying on a script (and an appointment) to their have their standard OTC pain relief (<30p per box) handed out for free to them, or for you to tell
them they have a cold.

Cinnabomb · 24/08/2022 08:13

@memorial 🤣 Christ you’re brave posting this thread! MN hates GPs and is full of the type of posters who are the exact problem, you will never win this argument here and it will demoralise you further.

I am also a GP, at least I was but I left after maternity leave as couldn’t take all the shit. I did 3 years post CCT, that’s it. The NHS and public lost out on 30+ years of service from me, because exactly like you I couldn’t put up with the rubbish, the unnecessary complaints and the completely entitled expectations. I also was ‘an excellent GP’, I really went above and beyond, gave people the extra mile and squeezed in whatever I could. It was never enough and like pouring energy into a black hole. Yes true, the government has caused many problems but fundamentally there is also problem with the British public. The majority are too entitled and unable to self care, exactly as you say.

Hmmmwhatnametochoose · 24/08/2022 08:13

OP I completely agree, and some of the more viperous comments on here are simply proving your point.

We don't value the NHS - it's broken beyond fixing. We need to pay for GP appointments.

Thank you for all the work you've done over the years.

TooMuchToDoTooLittleInclination · 24/08/2022 08:13

NovaDeltas · 24/08/2022 01:52

Not at all unreasonable, OP. I've heard shocking tales of time wasters, of people using ambulances as a taxi service and 999 just to chat because they're lonely. I think fining the true time wasters is the next step. Not just charging - then all you'll have are wealthy time wasters - but if you turn up with a sore throat that just came on that morning, fifty quid. They'd soon learn to take their strange whinging somewhere else.

@NovaDeltas no they wouldn't, they'd just lie about it & we'd have more people sent to referrals when what they needed was a strepsil.

Violinist64 · 24/08/2022 08:14

I feel sorry for you and know exactly what you are saying about patients who don’t need a doctor’s appointment. I try not to go unless absolutely necessary and still worry about wasting the doctor’s time when I have to go. We all know people who go for very trivial reasons but l am amazed that they can actually get an appointment as we are screened before we go. At our surgery, the nurse practitioner seems to be where most patients are sent. Recently, I had a bad ear infection where one side of my head was painful and stiff and the only relief was holding it upright. When I rang the surgery, despite my emphasising I needed to see a doctor, I was “allowed” to see the nurse practitioner, who immediately knew that l needed to see a doctor and so I was taken to see a gp l had never seen before. This doctor treated me as a time waster and was most dismissive when l said that I was concerned that the swelling behind my ear might indicate acute mastoiditis. After a lifetime of problems with my ear, I know a fair bit about MY ear and MY fairly unusual medical condition. I know very little about other ailments. I am also reasonably intelligent. I felt fobbed off, as if I was making a fuss over something very trivial and as if the gp was pooh-poohing my own lived experiences. To be fair, she did prescribe antibiotics and ear drops. A week later, I had a phone call from the doctor saying that the swab had picked up a specific type of infection and I needed certain ear drops. Most of the time, most doctors are great but I, and others like me who rarely go to the doctor and even then only in extremis, have occasionally been very upset by rude and unsympathetic doctors who have not listened.

TheWayOfTheWorld · 24/08/2022 08:14

TeapotTitties · 24/08/2022 00:42

Go get another job then

No need to tell the internet about it 🤷

I used to work at Aldis. Eventually I had enough of it, the customers started to piss me off, the management started to piss me off and my colleagues started to piss me off.

So now I work in an office and I managed to switch jobs all on my own without telling Mumsnet about it first.

Imagine that OP...

How on earth is this comparable? You are easily replaceable, a GP isn't 🤷‍♀️

ichifanny · 24/08/2022 08:15

In an HDU nurse and getting frustrated at the state people are coming in while Gp’s blame people for not being resilient enough . Like I said blame your government or management , not sure dismissing my opinion because I’m not ‘ a doctor’ makes you sound like you know anything that’s going on in hospitals just now .

Goosygandy · 24/08/2022 08:16

lemmein · 24/08/2022 07:30

The government has played an absolute blinder haven't they? 12 years of Tory cuts and here we are tearing shreds off those who seek help from HCPs Hmm

And the depressing thing is, next general election they'll probably get in again. Don't look up eh?

It's both though. Obviously get rid of this shit show of a government. But I can't control that. I have my vote but if other people vote for Boris Johnson because he looks like he'd be fun down the pub (actual quote) there's not much I can do.

I can choose not to go to the GP with a cold though. So can we all.

Twiglets1 · 24/08/2022 08:17

You have my sympathy OP.
I get burn out too sometimes working in a school. Too many parents take no personal responsibility for their children’s bad behaviour or rudeness to others. It must be all the schools fault every time, according to some parents. And believe me that sense of I can always blame someone else for my personal issues has absolutely been passed on to their children.

GyozaGuiting · 24/08/2022 08:17

My friend works in A and E, and during covid she only saw the people who genuinely needed to be there. The time wasters stayed away. She says it’s packed now with unnecessary patients. One guy wouldn’t leave as he was demanding an X-ray, saying he couldn’t walk. As he was pacing up and down in front of her…

Junepassing · 24/08/2022 08:17

I don't know how GPs are doing it anymore, the demands and expectations of patients just seem to have skyrocketed over the past year. I work in a GP surgery (just as a part time HCA) and I have noticed a real difference compared to five years ago. I used to be able to see each patient for their simple blood test/injection/dressing etc, but no exaggeration, now every other patient begins their visit with 'oh while I'm here can you just:
Look at my bruise
Examine my ear, I think it might be blocked
Look at this red patch on my knee
Is this mole skin cancer?
Can you re-prescribe my cream?

And so on. None of these issues are urgent, none of them are within the scope of my training or qualifications; but it takes so long explaining that to them and trying to reason with them to make another appointment with a clinician, especially when you already only have five minutes per appointment!! I'm always rushed off my feet and running behind. I was recently reduced to tears after a particularly entitled lady threw the most unreasonable and ugly tantrum because I had kept her waiting a mere ten minutes after her appointment time, and only because I was trying my best to accommodate all of the above demands. Another patient recently thought that she might have a uti, and just couldn't understand why I wouldn't 'just prescribe her antibiotics now.' I had reassured her that I would arrange for a GP to contact her later that day, but that still just simply was not soon enough! Yesterday our GP was rushed off his feet and had to admit three patients throughout the day, and all the while I could see his clinic chocka with all the frequent attenders. The publics expectations are completely unreasonable and need to change.

ichifanny · 24/08/2022 08:18

My whole point is that person you dismiss as not being worthy to having a GP appointment Clyde be masking something more serious , cancer or heart disease be suicidal etc , I feel the same about A&E telling people not to come unless seriously unwell . Some people take this to heart and won’t attend any sort of health care until they are about to die . That’s not what primary health care was set up for .

FrancescaContini · 24/08/2022 08:20

memorial · 24/08/2022 00:46

I'm sorry you feel that way. Part of the problem is the disdain with which you clearly view highly trained experienced professionals.
I would like to think and am pretty sure I have changed many lives over the last 25 years. Am certain of it. But your disdain just shows your ignorance as to what we do and that you have been lucky enough to have never really needed our expertise.

Agree with @memorial that @Blue4YOU ’s post is full of disdain. It’s horrible to read, actually.

GyozaGuiting · 24/08/2022 08:21

@TheWayOfTheWorld I’m glad the Op started the thread as it’s an insight into a world a lot of people don’t see.
it’s interesting social commentary.
I sincerely hope the Op doesn’t listen to you, we need all the doctors we can get.
they save lives. Aldi workers don’t.

ItsMyUsername · 24/08/2022 08:21

Quincythequince · 24/08/2022 08:02

Why would you not go back for a potentially lifesaving smear just because you felt rushed?

Exactly, it's a potentially life saving test so why was I made to feel like I shouldn't be there?

I think you would have had to be there to know what I mean.

Goosygandy · 24/08/2022 08:21

ichifanny · 24/08/2022 08:15

In an HDU nurse and getting frustrated at the state people are coming in while Gp’s blame people for not being resilient enough . Like I said blame your government or management , not sure dismissing my opinion because I’m not ‘ a doctor’ makes you sound like you know anything that’s going on in hospitals just now .

You're still missing the point. If people didn't clog up general practice with trivia they'd be more time to deal with people with serious problems. It's not about resilience, it's about personal responsibility.

There may be a section of people who can't treat themselves because they can't cope with life, but most people who hold down jobs and have mortgages can deal with mild illnesses and conditions perfectly well.

DIYandEatCake · 24/08/2022 08:21

The current system is just awful and inadequate both for healthcare professionals and patients. I haven’t seen a GP face to face for over 3 years - it’s all phone consultations now. Last time I spoke to my GP (one of only two times in three years, I only contact them when really necessary) she sounded beyond stressed. I can’t imagine having a list of 50 phonecalls to make, and to be expected to actually effectively treat people that way - the prospect of misunderstanding/missing something and making errors would be scary. As a patient though it also didn’t work - I came away feeling frustrated and not at all reassured, and totally alone with my worries (which is when people start turning to Google instead and it all snowballs). A lot of people are feeling isolated, anxious and unheard - it’s not GP’s fault, it’s the system. I really don’t think you can replace the ‘human’ side of medicine. My mum lives in a rural community where the GP is under a lot less pressure - they are able to offer everyone face to face appointments, and my mum who has multiple health issues is very well looked after and gets much more ‘whole person’ treatment - which must be a lot more rewarding for the GP too. I’m sorry things are so hard for you and your colleagues at the moment.

Hangingoninthere88 · 24/08/2022 08:22

I'm also a GP. YANBU OP but unfortunately you'll never win trying to get sympathy from the public. The public has decided it hates us and we don't care. Most are completely oblivious to the sheer workload and stress that primary care is under and are gleefully buying into the narrative that it's all our fault for not caring/not working hard enough/employing 'dragon' receptionists who won't give them an appointment. They fail refuse to see that the problem is underfunding and the job simply not being appealing enough for people to put up with this shit any more.

Tbh I've only just qualified but would leave if there was an easy way out but I have a family and it isn't easy to just buggar off to another country or to find an alternative career. Less junior doctors are staying in this country or commiting to any medical specialisms. The system and the public need to acknowledge this developing catastrophe before the whole NHS collapses. Of course it'll be all our fault, the human beings just doing our best, when it does though.... You have my sympathy OP but I don't know what the answer is. Ultimately though I think we just need more doctors. Less time wasters would be nice but they've always been there I reckon and it's a very small part of the problem

Windypants21 · 24/08/2022 08:22

I have worked for and with a fair few GPs as a nurse. Dont envy their job and totally get the burn out. But theyre not the only part of the health service suffering. I worked in the community during Covid and honestly GPs didnt cover themselves in glory.

I have to say I would NEVER be employed directly by a Gp. I got to the stage where i left jobs because of the lack of respect for a fellow professional and I am certainly not alone. While Gp pay may not have increased it is still a good wage but few GPs invest in their staff or feel they should be paid a fair wage or increment for upskilling and taking on greater responsibility.

I know a GP nurse practitioner who is nose to the ground all day taking all the 'minor' calls, she is a prescriber, when she doesnt do that she is the Diabetes /asthma/ smear nurse. Anytime I have had to deal with her about a patient she is barely able to get a cup of tea.

Another practice nurse I know left her surgery because despite all the speciality training she had, the GPs didnt want to give her incremental pay increases in line with her skills and knowledge. Didnt mind asking her to go over and above though.

There are ways of helping to manage the influx but some GPs dont want to pay to do it.

For others interested to know and thinking they only need to see their gp, I needed to go to my surgery recently due to concerns with arm numbness/pain, saw the nurse Practitioner, first time I've had an actual physical exam in many years, much more thorough. My brother in law ex Gp by about 5 years, now early 60s, had some (post viral) cardiac issues, he was horrified by the lack of physical exam/assessment.

The system is definitely broken, the patients that aren't seen by the gp go to a+e or are redirected to a+e by gp services. Every strand of clinical services is buckling. There are unreasonable expectations and impossible targets, unfortunately it isnt a paper exercise it is peoples lives and health.

LadyWithLapdog · 24/08/2022 08:22

Not RTFT but my kids (late teens) will ask to see the doctor for any tiny thing, and I mean tiny. It’s not a behaviour they get from me and not one I indulge for them. Sometimes it’s stuff they see on TikTok.

Quincythequince · 24/08/2022 08:23

ItsMyUsername · 24/08/2022 08:21

Exactly, it's a potentially life saving test so why was I made to feel like I shouldn't be there?

I think you would have had to be there to know what I mean.

Ok, fair enough. You had a rude nurse, not good.
But you got your test, so any anomalies will be picked up.

You avoiding the BP question though. Of course you don’t have to answer it, but it’s very telling.

ItsMyUsername · 24/08/2022 08:23

Also. I know people who are too scared to go to the doctors as they don't want to inconvenience them. One went on to have a heart attack.

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