AIBU to think social housing homes should be temporary?

[Shannoncakequeen]

I know a lot of people won’t be happy about this view so I’m prepared to get flamed for it.

I don’t agree with people living in their social housing homes when they’re no longer ‘entitled’ to them.

By entitled I mean their children have left home so they have extra bedrooms they don’t need but continue to outlive their life there, and so preventing another family from enjoying a suitable home.

It’s not a bash about social housing per se as I know it is there for a very good reason. I was raised in council properties myself so I understand the importance of them being available to those in poverty. I feel many people abuse the system that keeps it fair for those who need it.

As an example, I have a neighbour who lives alone in a 3 bedroom house, large garden, garage and driveway. Ideal property for most of the population. Her children left home over 10 years ago and she is in her early 50s. She told me she had decorated the spare bedrooms for her grandchildren to sleep over in the future (they are currently babies). Whilst I’m flabbergasted she would want to stay put rather than downsize to something small and suitable for one adult, I am human and understand the memories/emotional connection/a house is a home etc, but it isn’t her property and is rented from our local council and therefore I’m shocked the council haven’t got stricter policies on this type of thing. I understand they can’t legally turf out people from their homes, but there should be an incentive to rehome these people so families aren’t stuck in one bedroom tower block flats whilst single adults live in luxury.

Maybe I am bitter because I have to rent and pay extortionate money for the privilege as I cannot get a deposit to buy so I will never be able to raise my child in a home like she has. The house would be £400k+ if it was owned privately, yet she gets it for free and for life just because she joined the list many years ago when it was easy to get social housing. I know many other people in similar places to her and they all believe they morally own the property and have no concern for the housing crisis.

Does anyone else agree that there needs to be stricter rules to make it fair for everyone to have affordable housing whilst in need only (up until children leave home) and not for life? If you are in this position what makes you stay and not give up the property to a family in need? If you plan to stay in your property when your children leave home what offer would make you rethink staying? I’m aware there are new rules for new tenants but this is aimed at long term tenants.

Again I understand this will trigger some people, but morally I can’t come to grips with the entitlement of some people (excluding those who still need the property for health reasons).

@Doris86

If people give up their council/HA tenancy after 25-30 years (when their kids have left,) then where do you suggest they go? Do you suggest they leave their secure lifetime tenancy on their HOME, costing £375 a month rent, that they have spent DECADES making nice, and spending their money on decorating and caring for, for an insecure private let shithole at two or three times the rent? With poor - or NO repairs and maintenance? And where they can get kicked out of with 8 weeks notice?

Unless the council offers a smaller place - and a decent place, (not a 1 bed doghole at the top of a high rise block of flats,) more like a smaller house, or a bungalow (pref 2-bed,) with a garden, in a similar area, with a similar affordable rent, and with another lifetime tenancy, then why on EARTH would or SHOULD the tenants leave?

The council very rarely DO offer anything though. They will expect the tenants to move out and fuck off into some private let shitbox. If they DO offer anything else (and it's very rare they do;) if it's a couple or single person in their 50s, (whose kids have flown the nest,) they will be offered a 1 bed flat.

After spending 30 years raising their family in the 3 bed semi they live in, with a nice big back garden, front garden and driveway, and possibly a garage, they should fuck off, and live in a tiny flat (probably on the 5th floor of a high rise block!) LOL fuck that! Also, where are the grandkids meant to stay? Or any other family members/visitors? What about if one of the kids comes back home??? What about all the money they have spent on making the property and garden nice? All the TLC and love that has gone into their home?

In addition, as I and several others have said, would these pearl clutching posters who think someone should give their 3 bed social housing home up as soon as the youngest leave home, do the same themselves? If the OP has one child aged 10, and she is given a long term HA or council tenancy, for a 2 bed semi with a nice garden and a driveway with a £375 a month rent; will she hand her tenancy in 8 years if the kid leaves home at 18? And move into insecure private let, costing £775 a month for the same sort of property?

LOL yeah right. Don't make me laugh! No WAY would she leave!

She claims she grew up in a council house too. As I said earlier, have her PARENTS given up the tenancy then??? Surely they should now the kids have left???????! If not WHYYY not?!

@andyethereweare He’s 85 so definitely eligible for retirement housing. 😂

He’s not in London, but there still isn’t much social housing stock of the type he needs in his area. You have to be pretty destitute to get one.

50/60 years ago communities were made through social housing, the majority knuckled down with the intention to buy and make it their forever home.

They're a mixed bag now, certain areas have had little or no investment and any chance of buying is gone.

Had the government in Ireland and the UK continued to build sufficient social housing there wouldn't be this issue.

There was millions invested in private housing throughout the boom and a tiny percentage of social housing built.

In Ireland any new builds were to allocate a certain amount to social housing it didn't happen for 10 years.

The government has created an off the scale housing crisis.

It's a drop in the ocean.

The government has created an off the scale housing crisis.
The Irish government, I forgot to add to my rant.

@WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps Yes they should move out. Why should they be entitled to keep a house bigger than they need, at a cheap rent subsidised by the state, when there are others in far greater need for it, just because they have spent decades ‘making it nice’?

Would I want move out if I was in that situation? No of course not. Who would? That is why the system needs change, because no one is going to do it voluntarily.

Yes, I think there should be stricter rules. My paternal grandparents raised my dad and two brothers in a large three bedroom council
house. The boys all left home and then grandpa died in his mid fifties/early sixties. Grandma rattled around in this large house that would have been far better suited to a young family for 10 plus years until she died. She just didn’t want to move.

Tho according to dukes ahe wouid have to be moved again as same sec can’t share after a certain age

which again is a weird rule

if you own or Private rent then boys and girls share a bedroom

*rules ffs

I don’t think people should be allowed to inherit tenancies. Seems like jumping the queue to me.
Can this be done by any nominated family member or would be mother have had to have had caring responsibilities for her son? Out of interest.

Not sure if it has been mentioned already as this such a busy thread but anyone interested in understanding more about social housing should read Estates- an intimate history. Fabulous fascinating book.

You wouldn't move out if you didn't have to as many have said that would be madness to leave your house with loads of space to live in a rundown flat. I think there shouldn't be an option to stay and it should be a process where when you sign the tenancy you know that you will have to move when you no longer need it (The system is no place to facilitate this current though).

I have bought my house but if times are hard and I can't afford a property of this size (let's be honest, is going to happen to a lot of people choosing between energy bills and mortgage over winter). I will have to move and buy somewhere smaller. Nobody would step in to save my house, be kicking off because I made it nice and it's my home or be saying why should I move into a house with no garden. I would just have to me and my 3 kids. And if I was to go on a council list I will go into temporary accommodation which is often a one bed flat or a hotel room until a house came up, which there aren't any because if your lucky enough to live in a nice council house with 3 rooms why would you leave?

The system is broken and for many there is no incentive to downsize or even attempt to get on the property ladder. Which is what council housing was supposed to be for, a home until you can afford one. It's leaving a lot of families who can't afford to buy living in poor housing conditions.

Of course there's incentive to get on the housing ladder, it's held up as the pretty much the main aspiration for UK society.

It's just completely out of reach for a lot of people.

There are different options, like almshouses for instance? Some housing associations also take direct applications. This lists older people’s housing by area. housingcare.org/elderly-uk-sheltered-housing

@Cameleongirl www.anchor.org.uk/our-properties/hanover-green-knottingley I advise this housing association to many older people, worth a look.

back to the thread, I’d like to know if anyone here who has a council house would have took the tenancy? if it was for only 3/5 years etc.
i certainly wouldn’t have, my home was an absolute dump when I signed for it, jungle garden, no patio or fencing, so 1000’s needed before I even saw the inside, at that time it was about £100pm less than private rent so definitely would not have been worth it for temporary housing

I don’t think people should be allowed to inherit tenancies. Seems like jumping the queue to me.
Yes I agree with you.

That wouldn't happen in Ireland unless the person was in a position of needing one, another generation of family.

Single adult DC will not inherit 3 bedroom council housing.

I couldn't believe a friend in Belfast single no children got to keep her DM's large HA house rent controlled.

Depending on their circumstances they'd be placed in a 1 bedroom or put into homeless accommodation.

They can't ,me and dh have a joint tenancy it was made very clear to us there could only be one succession of tenancy so if I die before him he inherits it as a single tenant and vice versa our kids cant inherit the tenancy.

It doesn’t happen here either me and husband have a joint tenancy. Kids can’t inherit it.

I’ve recently moved into social housing with my DS. I didn’t realise the stress I had been under in private rentals until we got here - the insecurity of not knowing if you will be asked to leave at short notice and also handing over large sums of money to line someone else’s pocket whilst struggling myself. I feel completely differently paying rent here knowing it is going to the running and upkeep of housing stock.

Having to your home when DC move out puts people back into that position of insecurity and worry. Also, how bad is a DC going to feel knowing when the leave home their parent(s) are going to be turfed out their home?

A better idea is to give incentives (maybe even just encouragement!) to younger people in larger social housing homes, with good financial positions, to buy. I know of two situations, one a couple with two kids, both in managerial jobs, in a 3 bed and the other a single man with a good job, no kids, in a 2 bed. Property around here is relatively cheap ( not cheap, but not like some parts of the UK) and I wondered why they didn’t buy (especially the single man who is always complaining about things). One thing I know is they all grew up in, and have always lived in, social housing. Perhaps to some people this is what you do , apply for home, wait your turn, get a house then stay put. Possibly they don’t see buying as an option for them, or feel uncertain about the unknown.

Encouraging younger people to buy would free up stock and benefit everyone rather than the somewhat barbaric idea of chucking the ageing population out of their homes.

Inheriting tenants is probably been phased out on new contracts.

They probably realised what a boo boo it was.

I wonder if @Shannoncakequeen would suggest people also stop using the NHS and educate their children privately once their circumstances improve?

Some councils used to do this. It was known as a ''grant to vacate'' and, to me, was a much better scheme than the RTB. It meant the tenant got the opportunity to be a home owner, while freeing up a council property. Win-win.

The bulk of the waiting list is people who have had more DC than they had room for. For example in a 2 bed and went on to have 3 DC. I live in zone 2 in London, somewhere where you would imagine has a long waiting list. There’s a 2 bed HA flat next door to me. A couple with one child were there when I moved in. They went after a few years and the next person who lived there was a single woman with one 6 month old child, clearly she didn’t wait years. She moved on. It’s now been let to a couple with one 18 month old, they didn’t wait “years” either. The people who need the bigger properties are those who went on to have more DC and are now overcrowded.

MN threads always bang on about not having more DC than you can afford or have room for. And yet on these SH threads people are expected to move out to make way for these families that (according to MN) shouldn’t have had the additional DC in the first place. So which is it? Should people be turfed out of their homes so that these people can be “rewarded” for having more DC?

Theres a lot of hypocrisy on MN.

Succession rights have already been changed since the Localism act and many previous rights became contractual promises rather than legal rights.

Remember succession applies to the tenancy not the property. Downsizing is often a requirement at this stage.

More here.

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/council_housing_association/can_you_inherit_a_council_tenancy#:~:text=of%20their%20death.-,You%20have%20succession%20rights%20if%20you%20live%20with%20your%20partner,relatives%20living%20in%20your%20home.

I love all the discussion on what housing changes would work. Are any of you involved with your local tenant involvement panels?

Yes that's understandable and his thrift counts against him

@Seymour5 @Gsds Thank you both, we're doing our research and we'll find him somewhere. I was responding more to PP's who said that everyone is entitled to council housing -in theory perhaps, in practice that's not really the case nowadays. Again, it's not the council's fault, with such a low housing stock, they simply can't help everyone.