AIBU to think social housing homes should be temporary?

[Shannoncakequeen]

I know a lot of people won’t be happy about this view so I’m prepared to get flamed for it.

I don’t agree with people living in their social housing homes when they’re no longer ‘entitled’ to them.

By entitled I mean their children have left home so they have extra bedrooms they don’t need but continue to outlive their life there, and so preventing another family from enjoying a suitable home.

It’s not a bash about social housing per se as I know it is there for a very good reason. I was raised in council properties myself so I understand the importance of them being available to those in poverty. I feel many people abuse the system that keeps it fair for those who need it.

As an example, I have a neighbour who lives alone in a 3 bedroom house, large garden, garage and driveway. Ideal property for most of the population. Her children left home over 10 years ago and she is in her early 50s. She told me she had decorated the spare bedrooms for her grandchildren to sleep over in the future (they are currently babies). Whilst I’m flabbergasted she would want to stay put rather than downsize to something small and suitable for one adult, I am human and understand the memories/emotional connection/a house is a home etc, but it isn’t her property and is rented from our local council and therefore I’m shocked the council haven’t got stricter policies on this type of thing. I understand they can’t legally turf out people from their homes, but there should be an incentive to rehome these people so families aren’t stuck in one bedroom tower block flats whilst single adults live in luxury.

Maybe I am bitter because I have to rent and pay extortionate money for the privilege as I cannot get a deposit to buy so I will never be able to raise my child in a home like she has. The house would be £400k+ if it was owned privately, yet she gets it for free and for life just because she joined the list many years ago when it was easy to get social housing. I know many other people in similar places to her and they all believe they morally own the property and have no concern for the housing crisis.

Does anyone else agree that there needs to be stricter rules to make it fair for everyone to have affordable housing whilst in need only (up until children leave home) and not for life? If you are in this position what makes you stay and not give up the property to a family in need? If you plan to stay in your property when your children leave home what offer would make you rethink staying? I’m aware there are new rules for new tenants but this is aimed at long term tenants.

Again I understand this will trigger some people, but morally I can’t come to grips with the entitlement of some people (excluding those who still need the property for health reasons).

It is a difficult situation to solve when there is little alternative accommodation for people to downsize to. I think maybe the rents charged to be reviewed based on need. A (single) friend of mine is in a 3bed HA property paying £400 a month. Privately rented she would be paying about £700 for the same house. Maybe if the rent reverted to something more like private equivalent once certain criteria was no longer met people would be more likely to downsize. Still doesn't address the lack of suitable alternative though.

Andy I understand that side of it and I know it wouldn’t be a straight forward situation hence knowing full well it’ll never happen even if the government magically put it into place. I don’t see why it would be illegal to put in place certain rules in exchange for keeping families off the streets/ away from abusers or whatever their particular circumstances are at the time of signing. It’s not the same as paying your deposit for a house you now own, you go into it as a tenant knowing it’s not yours but you can stay there because you were deemed entitled to it at that moment. Tenants accept certain rules of their contract and that they’ll be evicted if certain clauses are broken. Problem tenants that are eventually evicted are placed elsewhere and can cause issues under that borough, you can’t help everyone, some people/families are just awful by choice. I have to bide by a contract that states at the end of my tenancy my landlord can renew or evict me. I understand I can refuse to leave and drag it through the courts, but why would I? It’s not my house and if my landlord wanted it back I have to accept that as part of my contract. We love it here and if we could afford a deposit it would be perfect for us to buy, but we don’t have the means to do so we are grateful to have a nice home regardless. Why do social housing tenants get to take the keys and say it’s mine forever, essentially? Morally tenants should accept it for what it is, not an owned property they can invest in or pass to family, just a solution to the problem they faced at the time of beginning their tenancy and not a ‘free’ house. (Before anyone states the houses aren’t free, in general some tenants don’t pay their own rent due to benefits, they haven’t needed to pay a hefty deposit and the property is in safe liveable condition not needing thousands of pounds of work to move into, most work that needs doing the council do and pay for ie boiler/roof damage and so on.)

No the same should NOT apply for housing

You are wrong again

But a mortgaged house isn't yours either.....not til you make that very last payment 😂

*No the same should NOT apply for housing

You are wrong again*

Why ??

Four - that’s an interesting idea about changing the rent amount instead, but I do think it would cause poverty in the way the rising bills has been. The new build properties near me are £800 per month and they are council. The older builds are £300-400. My idea isn’t to make people suffer and struggle financially, it’s about making sure people in need get the property they deserve at the times they need it. Why in 2022 are there families considered homeless in dangerous hostels while single or couples adults are in houses they don’t need? Anyone who doesn’t think this is wrong and very sad need to wake up to the reality around them. Staying in your large house because you paid for a £2000 kitchen isn’t a reason to keep a house that isn’t yours when you have the means to downsize, buy or rent elsewhere but decide not to. A single mother on universal credit is constantly badgered about returning to work, has to go to the job centre for appointments and her payments are changed according to her hours each month. If that’s ok and there’s no alternative other than not receive universal credit and starve, there can be a similar system in place for housing too.

"A single mother on universal credit is constantly badgered about returning to work, has to go to the job centre for appointments and her payments are changed according to her hours each month. If that’s ok and there’s no alternative other than not receive universal credit and starve, there can be a similar system in place for housing too."

It's not a race to the bottom. Or it shouldn't be.

We're a developed country, there's plenty of wealth, we need to be doing better than harassing the poorest and punishing efforts to better yourself.

Do posters on mumsnet genuinely believe that, even if the government ‘properly’ taxed the rich and didn’t misspend the proceeds, there would be enough money to offer affordable housing to every person in the country as well as providing generous benefits, a 5* NHS and basically unlimited funding for any other cause deemed necessary?

I have never voted Tory and believe they are heartless bastards who are disastrously underfunding public services. But even I acknowledge the mumsnet take on public spending is ludicrous.

My sister lives in Jersey. They have state houses they rent out to people in need. Needs are carefully assessed. My sister's friend had a DH and 2 DC. They loved in house for 21 years. Always paid rent on time, kept garden nice. When eldest son left home after he completed uni they got letter needs reassessed only now needed 2 bedrooms. Moved into 2 bedroom. Dd then went to uni and when her course complete got another letter had to move to 1 bedroom flat. The houses were relet to new tenants with children and her dd had to find private accommodation as she went back to Jersey to teach. This system is harsh, as she had to leave a beautifully decorated and maintained home but I'd does mean 2 families with children now have less cramped living conditions. I think we should do this in UK. I know my view won't be popular though. I think government should stop selling off the council houses and let them to families but with contracts not entitling them to house for life.

For those living in for example 3 bed homes after their kids have gone to move into more appropriate housing more 1 beds need to be available. There are thousands currently subject to the bedroom tax who don't want to be...there just aren't the 1 bed properties for them to move into. It's not as simple as saying "they're being selfish." I don't think it's selfish to want to remain with a roof over your head!

I believe in the bedroom tax, if the occupiers have made it clear they have no intention of moving. If they sign up to downsize they shouldn’t be penalised for that.

Of course it’s not selfish when they are trying to work on their situation, I know for many paying bedroom tax they don’t want to and I’ve seen for myself how many people are trying to downsize on homeswapper and they get my full respect, they should be the ones who get the incentive for choosing to move. It’s the people like my neighbour who feel more entitled than others that need the rules and to face the music they are adding to the housing crisis. It sounds like Jersey have their heads screwed on.

"It sounds like Jersey have their heads screwed on"

Really? www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2021/11/22/jersey-has-a-housing-crisis-that-politicians-claim-doesnt-exist/

Very interesting thread.
I can see why it's such an emotive issue on both sides of the argument.

We have a mortgage & before that rented privately for many years in our 20s. So no direct experience of social housing.

My dh has a relative who lives in England in a housing association 4 bedroom house. She moved in there with her teenaged children when she left get husband.

Her kids are now all well into their 30s & they all lived at home with various partners for many years allowing them to save deposits & start businesses.

At one stage there were 5 wage earning adults living in that house, paying minimal rent

They travel a lot & all have new cars. She boasted that the kids were living with her so they could buy houses for the rental market & 2 of them did this for several years

The mum is forever moaning on social media about how shit the HA is & yet she's had a brand new kitchen just fitted. Free.

Over the past couple of years the kids have started moving out & she lives in this 4 bed house with 1 adult child who runs their own v successful business.

The mother is late 50s now & planning on staying there for life even if / when her kids all move out as she wants the rooms to have grandkids stay over

She's now trying to get onto disability as she wants to have time at home & with her grandkids. She's constantly seeking diagnosis..

Speaking to her she is the most infuriatingly entitled person I've ever met. She's ungrateful & can't see how lucky she is to have that house. She moans about everything & anything & I have to say it drives me MAD when she starts given that we have to work our arses off to pay a mortgage & will continue to do so for the next 12 years & she huffs & puffs that she would prefer a house in a location like ours.

I honestly don't know what the solution is but should she be able to stay put in a 4 bed house for the next 30+ years?

For anyone saying people deserve to stay in their home, have they any idea what the private rental sector is like?! Why don't young people stuck renting also deserve to have a home that they can't be chucked out of with two months notice? Where they can't even hang a family photo on their magnolia walls? Everything in this country is about protecting the poor precious old darlings. And they call us the snowflake generation...

People in social housing have the equivalent of winning the lottery in terms of security of tenure, cheap rents, ability to buy their social home with massive taxpayer discounts and normally much bigger homes. They don't have less, that is reserved for people renting in the private sector who have none of those luxuries.

@spuddy56 I believe everyone should have the security of a roof over their heads irrespective of tenure. But just because those in private rent don't have that, does that mean those living in social housing shouldn't either??

The private rent sector needs massive reform. We don't need to rip away the security from the other sectors.

Many housing associations are growing their "market rent" arm which is essentially the same as private rent but clearly run by an organisation who don't have the same interest in ending tenancies. Hopefully this will improve private rent for some.

Have you seen the state of social housing kitchens?
They are just basic cupboards and sink, and flooring, neither do they come with any appliances
And it's not free the housing association owns the house and has yo maintain the upkeep.

Onh and you cant just claim disability benefit, s because you say you are disabled you have to have proof .

Race to the bottom again.

Surely the focus should be on changing the system so people can have longer secure tenancies where they can hang up pictures etc, where there are rent controls in the private sector, where housing isn't treated as a money-making scheme.

Nobody seems to care about people stuck in private rentals

@UniBallEye

That attitude is very entitled. I have a CH for which I’m always grateful for. The only positive I can take from your post is that her 4 adult children have moved on and do not rely on state housing so essentially there has been a break in the poverty cycle there.

She will have to pay full rent now they have all moved out, if she doesn’t she will be subject to the bedroom tax.

"Should be temporary"

Nobody lives forever

Therefore, the properties are temporary by default

Who says they don't @spuddy56 ?? But this thread was started about social housing tenants.

I believe that private renting is very difficult form of housing to live in. I have seen many cases where private renting tenants have been served notice for no good reason, but that the landlord thinks they can make more money by moving someone else in. These people sometimes get rehoused in the social housing sector because of this.

Full rent, council tax and all the bills associated with a four bed house!