AIBU to think social housing homes should be temporary?

[Shannoncakequeen]

I know a lot of people won’t be happy about this view so I’m prepared to get flamed for it.

I don’t agree with people living in their social housing homes when they’re no longer ‘entitled’ to them.

By entitled I mean their children have left home so they have extra bedrooms they don’t need but continue to outlive their life there, and so preventing another family from enjoying a suitable home.

It’s not a bash about social housing per se as I know it is there for a very good reason. I was raised in council properties myself so I understand the importance of them being available to those in poverty. I feel many people abuse the system that keeps it fair for those who need it.

As an example, I have a neighbour who lives alone in a 3 bedroom house, large garden, garage and driveway. Ideal property for most of the population. Her children left home over 10 years ago and she is in her early 50s. She told me she had decorated the spare bedrooms for her grandchildren to sleep over in the future (they are currently babies). Whilst I’m flabbergasted she would want to stay put rather than downsize to something small and suitable for one adult, I am human and understand the memories/emotional connection/a house is a home etc, but it isn’t her property and is rented from our local council and therefore I’m shocked the council haven’t got stricter policies on this type of thing. I understand they can’t legally turf out people from their homes, but there should be an incentive to rehome these people so families aren’t stuck in one bedroom tower block flats whilst single adults live in luxury.

Maybe I am bitter because I have to rent and pay extortionate money for the privilege as I cannot get a deposit to buy so I will never be able to raise my child in a home like she has. The house would be £400k+ if it was owned privately, yet she gets it for free and for life just because she joined the list many years ago when it was easy to get social housing. I know many other people in similar places to her and they all believe they morally own the property and have no concern for the housing crisis.

Does anyone else agree that there needs to be stricter rules to make it fair for everyone to have affordable housing whilst in need only (up until children leave home) and not for life? If you are in this position what makes you stay and not give up the property to a family in need? If you plan to stay in your property when your children leave home what offer would make you rethink staying? I’m aware there are new rules for new tenants but this is aimed at long term tenants.

Again I understand this will trigger some people, but morally I can’t come to grips with the entitlement of some people (excluding those who still need the property for health reasons).

@Dragonsmother They must be the only ones in this situation in the country. Because anyone with that amount of income would just buy the house and make a profit.

It's a good gauge for a wind up...

I’m surprised they didn’t buy it years ago.

People from different walks of life used to mix on council estates. Young kids living next door to successful people as well as the hard-up gives them role models to aspire to. Using council estates as dumping grounds for society's failures just creates a no-go ghetto that no one escapes from.
www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/09/19/finally-tory-gets-parents-werent-hypocrites-living-council-estate/

I get your idea and personally I think the council should be moving people like her out of family homes and in to 1 or 2 bed properties but the issue with that is there aren't any to move them. Councils should be building flats etc for that exact reason and not giving tenants a choice to move or not. At the end of the day it's the council's property they should be able to utilise it how they see fit

Smaller property doesn't make it automatically better for an older person. Smaller properties can be harder to adapt as equipment takes space. Area accessibility is also important to consider.

I live on a road that's a mix of council house and private owned. My area has a lot of bungalows. It's known for old and disabled people. We're not an area families generally like to move to as the local schools have been shite for many years. The idea my older neighbours should leave an area older people move to because of how many bedrooms they have is weird to me.

When the children reach adulthood they can be placed in a more suitable property and a family in need can take on their larger house.

This sounds like suggesting kids in council houses or housing association properties should be made to leave when they reach adulthood to make room for other families? Yeah no. Most aren't leaving home at the same age they leave school by years. Why should my neighbour kids have to leave while my kids have our home as a safety net?

You say disabled people are exempt - that's over 10 million people in the UK by rough estimates. About 18-22% of the population and likely to grow with an aging population. Anyone can become disabled, it's only time and luck and the last thing we need is more disability testing.

Those who are against my view, can I ask how you would feel if you were in an unfortunate position that made you lose your home?

This seems to suggest that those who disagree with you have had a life of sunshine and roses.

I grew up around dangerous addicts - my parents are two of them.

I've been a couch hopper. I've been the person begging in the council housing office. I've been the person whose name and pregnancy couldn't be put down for a council house because I'm also an immigrant. I used to live in a housing association flat, back when my area allowed them to make different rules than the council. The set of flats was in a very inaccessible area surrounded by posh houses. I left after a couple years to move into private with my kids and a couple housemates because the flat was inaccessible. I lived in private for 12 years with the house falling down around us and a shite landlord.

Never not once did I begrudge elderly people or anyone else in council homes. You wanna know a big part of why? When I was that kid with drug addict parents, it was my grandparents in their homes with extra bedrooms that took me and my siblings in for months at a time that helped me and likely kept me from a lot of violence - I've seen the court records since, I know my parents had more arrests than I was aware of as a child, my mother repeatedly for assault. When I was couch hopping, it was my friends with older parents who had spare rooms that gave me the most help. I literally started my immigration to the UK because an retired disabled couple had a spare room and willing to give me a chance.

I now have a four bed house. I'm not going to downsize when my kids leave so I can help people like I was helped. I've already have a lodger and have looked into shared lives and supportive housing and talked to my local area teams about fostering as I consider how to help when I have spare rooms. I've discussed openly with my family that, since statistically I'm going to outlive the other adults here, that when I can no longer do whichever of those, I have Golden Girl dreams of housing a few friends likely to be stuck in rental in older age. It's already suited for my disabilities now and older years - I have ramps and shower rooms and really pretty handrails and there are still disconnected emergency intercoms and a few marks from where the rented stairlift used to be. Moving won't be more accessible for me unless I need medical care. I don't think my neighbours in council houses or those in the area in housing association houses should have less rights than I do for that.

As many have said, there aren't the types of homes for downsizing in many accessible areas and some accessible areas like mine aren't where families go, and really I think sensible home sharing will do more for some housing issues than assuming everyone should move to the smallest house possible. An older person on their own has a lot of risks whatever size house they're in, isolation comes with a lot of risks, and I do not get the appeal of everyone being in the smallest box we can fit in on our own. I've had too many help me when I was at my most vulnerable because they had the space to do for that to appeal to me.

My grandmother did live in a council tower block. She was trapped whenever the lifts were not working.

And the idea that families should turf out their children as soon as they reach 18 years old is horrific.

I'm really torn on this issue tbh because on one hand a lot of social housing now is actually pretty expensive because HA are competing at market value for purchase of land and property. So if they're paying their rent then fair enough. However equally the housing crisis is desperate at the minute with so many people in need so if there was a reshuffle and people moved it would help with that, however as op says if it's their home they've raised their family in then it's their home and a lot of people prefer the security social housing gives them over private renting which is understandable. I'd say a bigger issue is rent avoidance and people using social housing for benefit drops, the amount owed in outstanding rent is crazy high eg and that could be used to provide more properties for the people who need them. That being said I know the vast majority of people using social housing are using it properly and are fully entitled to it.

Also just to say the better solution is probably to cap the rent for private landlords, estate agent fees and have more robust tenancy agreements that protect the tenant in a private tenancy unless they are abusing the tenancy in some way. If we had more suitable long term private rentals and less second or holiday homes owned by companies or people living abroad it would take a lot of the pressure off instead of targeting people who maybe can't afford a move to fix it

Why doesn't your neighbour pay rent? We live in a council property and pay rent. So do all the people who live near us.
Where do you suggest older people move to? There is a lack of housing. It took us 2 years to get this property and we were almost on the streets. Do you think when children are 18 the parents should just be kicked on to the streets again.
Instead of moaning be grateful you can afford to rent privately, no way we could and we both work full time. Blame the government, blame landlords who over charge. Don't blame people who have less than you.

Hmmm I kind of agree with this purely because my mum has a three bedroom SH house and my brother and his girlfriend have moved out so my mum is in there alone

She's getting on and can hardly manage the stairs and upkeep when she gets in from her full time job.
I am in a 2 bed flat with 3 kids and the HA have said they won't move me.
I've asked her to swap and she doesn't want to
Quite annoying indeed 😤

Like other posters have said we need more social housing, just moving people around won't increase the housing stock. It isn't a money issue, don't forget this country was virtually bankrupt after WW2 but still managed to start the NHS & build millions of council houses to replace homes lost during the war, house slum clearance families & give homes to new families. We have a government problem who don't consider anyone who needs social housing worthy of any help.

What is wrong is creating what can only be called ghettos of one bedroom flats & bungalows that are filled with older people who have been moved away from family, friends & everything that is familiar to them. One by one they die, can you imagine how depressing it must be?

My friend (who works and pays a ridiculous amount of rent -more than our actual mortgage for a larger house) is stuck in a smallish 2 bedroom terrace because there are NO smaller houses (social/private) at all to rent. She can't move because there's no where to move to !

We need proper rights for private renters.
And for the government to stop propping up house prices.
They are the real actions that would make a difference.
Not chucking 8- and 90-year-olds out of their homes.

Cap private rents and restrict private letting and second home ownership. No buy-to-let landlords should benefit from tax-payers' money in the shape of housing benefit above a certain point.
Buy-to-let portfolios to come with significant social taxation levy in recognition of the detrimental effect this practice has on housing. It should not be a 'thing' to profit from other people's basic need for a roof over their heads.

Build new council housing with community in mind so that nobody down-sizing will be significantly socially inconvenienced by a relocation. Review social housing tenancies on a regular basis to ensure they're responsive to need. Create social housing rental tiers so that once a tenant's income increases past certain points, rent is increased proportionally, generating income toward replenishing housing stock. Income scrutiny to be built in to tenancy agreement.

Build 1 bedroom bungalows for the elderly, but not in sheltered housing. These are hard to let as the rents and service charges are so high only those who receive full housing benefits want them.

I don't think you quite grasp what you're asking for here though...

If you have council/HA estates filled with people who understand this home is temporary, there is no real incentive to look after the property.

Damage increases, repair bills increase, the area in general decreases (because whether working or on benefits, they've not enough money to put into keeping the flat looking nice inside and out, they're prioritising eating, bills, clothing etc!).

When the community is much more transient, standards and behaviour drops, crime increases. If you don't care about your neighbours, or even know them, never mind care... then shitting on your own doorstep becomes far less of an issue of course.

Now these flats are in a place no one wants to live... except those who have no choice or those who are so fucking scary themselves they don't care.. and so the area gets worse.

And we're back to the vile sink estates of the 70s/80s, where people don't dare drive through never mind walk, where the bus routes are changed to avoid them, where what goes on is ruled by drug dealers and the types of people even the police avoid.

The situation as is, isn't ideal, because housing stock wasn't looked after which pushed the right to buy scheme higher up in local authorities priorities, get rid of properties that cost too much to update, woohoo... only they didn't then spend that money on existing stock or buying new stock/ In fact better still, push the housing onto ALMO and HA's... who build cheap and nasty housing that won't last anywhere near as long as the old housing stock, but it is no longer directly the LA's issue (oh but theres no where to house people...).

I dunno what the solution is... but making tenancies less secure and residents more transient is not it.

This!! Honestly the entitlement of some of these responses is shocking.

OP I'm very interested in the area you live in. The one that has lots of empty council properties, that no one wants to live in ?

Me and DP live in a 2 bed HA bungalow. I moved in 23 years ago when DD was 7yrs old. I won't give up mine for 2 reason's

1. I was given this place after the LL I was renting from before (exMiL as it happens), gave me 4 weeks to move out so that ExH could live there with OW. Never again will I have the overwhelming fear of being made homeless as my tenancy is a lifelong one.

2. The only 1 bed properties the HA build are flats with no balconies or private outside space. I'm not into gardening( the one here is tiny), but the idea of being cooped up in a tiny 1 bed flat is not something I will entertain. Also the spare room I have now means that DP and me have our own space as it is where he goes when I'm watching t.v ( he doesn't watch telly much unless there is a program about something he is interested in). Not having that space away from each other would probably spell the end of our relationship as constantly being in the same room as another person would do my head in.

antelopevalley Land is expensive and why would they build 8 bungalows when they could build 24 apartments?

I can sort of see the OPs point. The waiting lists are huge, meanwhile there's people living in homes that are bigger than their needs. Why should a family be waiting to move for years when there's someone in a house with more rooms than they really need?

Having now rtft I'm struck by a few comments about making people leave their homes (because it is a home to many of us), when their DC leaves. I was mid 40's when DD went off to uni, I worked for NMW and my commute was a 30 minute all round journey. If I had been made to leave, but the only place available was an hour away then not only would I have to pay the additional costs of getting to work, if anything had happened that my car was out of action, how would I get there seeing as where I worked was not served by public transport and there would be no-one I could have got a lift in with and I certainly would not have been able to afford a taxi there and back? Also DP could lose his licence for a minimum of 12 months at any time (he is epileptic). There are people nearby who work in the same place he does and he has had lifts with them in the past when he hasn't been able to drive. Being forced to move out of the area would probably have cost me my job (it would certainly mean an end to DP's should he have a seizure), so would have ended up costing the taxpayer more as I 'd have to claim benefits whilst looking for a new one as would DP. Not everybody who has adult DC is elderly, some of us are still working age. What would be the point of getting a job in the local area if you knew that in a few years time there is a risk that you could be forced out of that area?