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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Tradesman chasing for payment

699 replies

CharlesIsQueensHorcrux · 19/06/2022 11:24

Hi - I had a tradesman in last week, finished Friday & invoiced Friday night with email and message. Since then has messaged another five times chasing me! By the way I wasn’t ignoring him I messaged back saying I was out but would deal. Is it me or is he unreasonable to chase me all weekend for an invoice issued on Friday night? I was happy with the work but not sure now I would use him again as I feel a bit ick like there’s a suggestion I wouldn’t pay or something. Aibu?

OP posts:
Headabovetheparakeet · 19/06/2022 13:17

A lot if overreactions here. I run my own business and wouldn't do this - if cash flow is that tight, I'd ask for part payment upfront and the rest on completion.

Longdistance · 19/06/2022 13:17

Man’s gotta eat! Just pay him 🙄

LetitiaLeghorn · 19/06/2022 13:20

If there's an issue with the work, then you address that separately imo.

I my experience, Yyou never see them again, or they mess you around by when they can come back until you end up giving up.

Luredbyapomegranate · 19/06/2022 13:22

I think we’re used to having 10 days / 30 days to pay an invoice -

Bit really small businesses need to be paid immediately, we just need a culture change, with later payment only if terms agreed. We don’t expect it when we go to a shop.

Intransigentcat · 19/06/2022 13:22

I wouldn't pay on the same day. Absolutely not.

But then I was a QS in the construction industry and I would make them aware my payments expectations at the outset in writing . Paying them on the day allows absolutely no guarantee of them returning if the work isn't up to scratch. Once you've worked on civil, new build, refurb and restoration jobs and had to have people back in time and time again in every area you've worked in, you know that jobs are not always done right first time.

I've more that once had a subby not returning to a job to complete their snagging list items because it wasn't worth the 5 per cent retention held in accordance with the contract. So how do you think you'll get them back to sort out issues when you've paid them same day?

I work with someone who was pressured massively by the company that did his loft conversion to pay the same day, before he'd even got home from work and viewed it. I inspected it for him and found several issues. I knew there would be, I knew their program was unrealistic and they must have rushed and bodged. They had, the floor boarding wasn't even properly supported in one area. This is a well reviewed highly rated firm btw.

Another issue was that they damaged his newly done expensive paint job in his hallway despite assurances they would use protection and fancy videos on their website showing everything being properly sheeted up. I at least managed to stop him paying until they had corrected their own work. However they pressured with phone calls and emails and he caved and paid before they rectified the paintwork.

Yep he's now paying for that himself.

A sustainable business should be able to raise enough credit to deal with a reasonable payment term. I wouldn't employ someone in such financial peril that they had to have cash the same day. Doesn't smack of a stable professional.

Paying in cash? Absolutely not. And why would you? Electronic transfer leaves a proper paper trail. It also helps stops tax evasion and huge amount of that goes on in construction. I've never not paid the VAT on a job by paying in cash and I'm assuming no one else on Mumsnet has given how strongly everyone felt about Rishi Sunaks wife paying more tax on a past thread.

When I had my house remodelled, you can bet my payments were done properly. Interim payments throughout, the full value on completion but only after I'd had time to do a full snagging list and a retention of 5 per cent held. I've never released it as they've never addressed certain issues. I'm about to use some of that money to get the door sorted that's never been right.

Make sure you're fully happy with the work OP. Inspect it as well as you are able to. Take photos of what was done if you don't know what you're looking at. If you think there are any issues don't release the full amount just a percentage. Don't put up with being hassled. Tell them you'll pay them on the next working day. It no wonder there are so many cowboy builders about in England and industry lacks credibility. All the advice on this thread to rush into being someone's cash cow is so far from how professionals in the industry on projects act, it's no wonder people get screwed over so easily.

AhNowTed · 19/06/2022 13:24

pixie5121 · 19/06/2022 13:13

People here are full of shit.

I used to be freelance and normal payment terms were within 30 days. Issuing an invoice and expecting immediate payment is unreasonable. If you do, for some reason, need immediate payment, you need to make that clear.

Freelance what exactly?

We've had various tradesmen in recently, painters, gardeners etc and we pay before they leave the house.

These type of trades guys cant wait round for a bloody month. Ridiculous comment.

Honestly34 · 19/06/2022 13:24

If he is desperate for money or not is irrelevant he completed the job you are happy with why on earth should he wait for payment?
He has paid out for materials petrol ect

BashfulClam · 19/06/2022 13:25

SpidersAreShitheads · 19/06/2022 12:23

I’m with Nationwide. You do the transaction online as usual which takes less than a minute as it’s just entering in the info. Then you pop your card in the card reader, it gives you a reference number, you put that in the app and confirm it. Takes an extra 30 seconds.

The only nuisance is if you’re out and don’t have your card reader on you. But I think you can also verify by text message.

The extra measures aren’t onerous. There’s absolutely no reason to delay payment.

All U.K. banks do Faster Payments now - what banks are people saying “don’t do transfers on a weekend” or after 6pm????

Yep i’m with nationwide and it is not difficult. You set it up, use the card reader and Roberts your fathers brother.

LetitiaLeghorn · 19/06/2022 13:25

either pay them in advance from your work PC,

Never, ever, ever would I pay a tradesman I didn't know in advance.
I am so envious of all you people that have never had a shonky job done in your house!

liveforsummer · 19/06/2022 13:26

Intransigentcat · 19/06/2022 13:22

I wouldn't pay on the same day. Absolutely not.

But then I was a QS in the construction industry and I would make them aware my payments expectations at the outset in writing . Paying them on the day allows absolutely no guarantee of them returning if the work isn't up to scratch. Once you've worked on civil, new build, refurb and restoration jobs and had to have people back in time and time again in every area you've worked in, you know that jobs are not always done right first time.

I've more that once had a subby not returning to a job to complete their snagging list items because it wasn't worth the 5 per cent retention held in accordance with the contract. So how do you think you'll get them back to sort out issues when you've paid them same day?

I work with someone who was pressured massively by the company that did his loft conversion to pay the same day, before he'd even got home from work and viewed it. I inspected it for him and found several issues. I knew there would be, I knew their program was unrealistic and they must have rushed and bodged. They had, the floor boarding wasn't even properly supported in one area. This is a well reviewed highly rated firm btw.

Another issue was that they damaged his newly done expensive paint job in his hallway despite assurances they would use protection and fancy videos on their website showing everything being properly sheeted up. I at least managed to stop him paying until they had corrected their own work. However they pressured with phone calls and emails and he caved and paid before they rectified the paintwork.

Yep he's now paying for that himself.

A sustainable business should be able to raise enough credit to deal with a reasonable payment term. I wouldn't employ someone in such financial peril that they had to have cash the same day. Doesn't smack of a stable professional.

Paying in cash? Absolutely not. And why would you? Electronic transfer leaves a proper paper trail. It also helps stops tax evasion and huge amount of that goes on in construction. I've never not paid the VAT on a job by paying in cash and I'm assuming no one else on Mumsnet has given how strongly everyone felt about Rishi Sunaks wife paying more tax on a past thread.

When I had my house remodelled, you can bet my payments were done properly. Interim payments throughout, the full value on completion but only after I'd had time to do a full snagging list and a retention of 5 per cent held. I've never released it as they've never addressed certain issues. I'm about to use some of that money to get the door sorted that's never been right.

Make sure you're fully happy with the work OP. Inspect it as well as you are able to. Take photos of what was done if you don't know what you're looking at. If you think there are any issues don't release the full amount just a percentage. Don't put up with being hassled. Tell them you'll pay them on the next working day. It no wonder there are so many cowboy builders about in England and industry lacks credibility. All the advice on this thread to rush into being someone's cash cow is so far from how professionals in the industry on projects act, it's no wonder people get screwed over so easily.

Doesn't sound like OP had a new build constructed or house remodelled by this guy though so it's a bit different to a small job checkable there and then

5zeds · 19/06/2022 13:30

It sounds like he doesn’t have food for the weekend.

lemmein · 19/06/2022 13:33

I'd be embarrassed if a tradesman had to contact me 5 times for payment.

pixie5121 · 19/06/2022 13:39

coffeecupsandfairylights · 19/06/2022 13:13

RTFT.

He did make it clear. Payment was due within a day.

Which most people would interpret as 'a working day'. Not bothering people during their weekend.

pixie5121 · 19/06/2022 13:40

AhNowTed · 19/06/2022 13:24

Freelance what exactly?

We've had various tradesmen in recently, painters, gardeners etc and we pay before they leave the house.

These type of trades guys cant wait round for a bloody month. Ridiculous comment.

Why?

What exactly makes tradesmen different to any other freelance job? I had to carefully plan out my finances to make sure I could get by while waiting for payments for jobs...why can't they?

Lalliella · 19/06/2022 13:43

Times are hard. He might be broke. Just pay him what you owe.

AchatAVendre · 19/06/2022 13:45

pixie5121 · 19/06/2022 13:40

Why?

What exactly makes tradesmen different to any other freelance job? I had to carefully plan out my finances to make sure I could get by while waiting for payments for jobs...why can't they?

Depends on how big the job is and whether the OP has already made stage payments or not. And on whether its supply and fix or whether the OP has supplied the materials.

I suspect in this instance though its due to fear of non-payment.

Presumably though the OP has a written quotation providing the basic terms of the contract including payment terms. If she hasn't, then its her own fault and I think it would be implied that she pays on completion.

Wife2b · 19/06/2022 13:50

Why is this still a problem on Sunday when you received the invoice on Friday. Just pay him ffs, it’s a two minute job. I feel sorry for tradesman in the sense that they complete work and walk out of jobs having to have good faith their customer isn’t going to stiff them. I’m sure it happens so I don’t blame him for being persistent. I had a tradesman in last week, I received the invoice at 9pm and I paid it immediately with a confirmation text sent to him to let him know. He didn’t say it had to be paid there and then at 9pm but it’s respectful to do it as soon as you receive the invoice.

GCRich · 19/06/2022 13:51

When you run a business you need to discuss terms up front. If you want payment in advance then don't do the work until you have been paid. If you want the money immediately upon completion then have card payment facilities and take payment immediately.

If you issue an invoice on completion then you will get paid in due course, hopefully very soon. You probably want to give people a short period of time to pay. But you're living in fantasy land if you think you'll get immediate payment. I don;t use my phone for internet banking. If A workman did work on a Friday I may well continue working, then have things to do with in the evening, then be knackered later, then the Saturday I'm rushing around all day, and it's 11am on Sunday before I have ten minutes to log on and do some internet banking.

I would be tempted - in response to the first message - to say "I'm really busy right now, you'll have the money in your account by Monday morning". If a second chaser came before Monday lunchtime my response (feelings of personal safety aside) may well be along the lines of "every time you text me I'm going to put back payment 48 hours - leave me the fuck alone".

And before anyone says anything... I have my own business and love prompt payment, but you can't demand immediate payment (unless agreed in advance and you take it by card before leaving),

GirlOfTudor · 19/06/2022 13:51

All these nasty messages saying you should've paid him immediately are ridiculous!
Most of the time I pay immediately, but sometimes if I'm busy with other stuff or it's a large payment, I have to brace myself and can take a couple of days before I pay.
I wouldn't take it personally though, he's likely broke and has urgent bills/debt to pay, or he's had customers who haven't paid at all and now he has a rule to be strict about payment.
Honestly, if the work is good and he is a decent person, use him again. Decent tradesmen are hard to find.

MsDirection · 19/06/2022 13:52

If all is well with a job, I pay small businesses or tradespeople the same day. Especially in these times when people are really struggling.

I think he might want to consider changing his terms and ask for half up front and the rest on completion.

JenniferBarkley · 19/06/2022 13:58

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

lemmein · 19/06/2022 14:00

Most of the time I pay immediately, but sometimes if I'm busy with other stuff or it's a large payment, I have to brace myself and can take a couple of days before I pay.

'Brace' yourself? Fucking ridiculous - pay what you owe asap. Nobody should have to wait for their earnings whilst you mentally prepare to press a few buttons 🙄

Lockheart · 19/06/2022 14:00

You should always pay promptly.

But I don't think paying on a Monday after the invoice was issued on Friday night - outside of business hours - could ever reasonably be considered paying late.

As you are already paying him, I would explain to him what is happening with the transaction limits and ask him not to harrass you further. It has been less than 48 hours, and a weekend to boot.

TheDoveFromAboveCooCoo · 19/06/2022 14:01

I think you have read that wrong @JenniferBarkley

She was saying husband is waiting on payment from 4 or 5 people not that he has 4 or 5 to pay.

coffeecupsandfairylights · 19/06/2022 14:01

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Eh? The post you quoted didn't even mention employees.

It said they're owed payment by 4 or 5 different people, not that they need to pay 4 or 5 different people.