Tradesman chasing for payment

[CharlesIsQueensHorcrux]

Hi - I had a tradesman in last week, finished Friday & invoiced Friday night with email and message. Since then has messaged another five times chasing me! By the way I wasn’t ignoring him I messaged back saying I was out but would deal. Is it me or is he unreasonable to chase me all weekend for an invoice issued on Friday night? I was happy with the work but not sure now I would use him again as I feel a bit ick like there’s a suggestion I wouldn’t pay or something. Aibu?

Pay the man!!

It’s surprising this thread has become so long. It’s not a highly complex issue.

5 messages over the weekend when invoice issued on Fri afternoon is harassment.
Considering or delaying payment due to ‘life’ = not good or fair, when tradesmen have faced costs up front, especially if terms of payment and time scale was made clear upfront. If not made clear upfront, then expecting to pay on Monday Morning seems okay.

Whate else there to say? Tradesmen, make your expectations of payment clear in writing upfront. Expect that when a job is completed Friday afternoon and invoice issued then, that sometimes payment won’t be received until Monday. If payment is within 24 hours, one wouldn’t expect weekends to be included in that and actually one wouldn’t expect a domestic customer to pay BACs charges to make automatic payment when they can do FPS for free, but understand that has to wait for Monday if Friday deadline missed.

But any excuses not to pay or be later than the Monday are unacceptable.

Both at fault here. Key problem as always is lack of communication. Could have been dealt with by tradesman being clearer about payment expectation, including the deal when invoice issued on a Fri afternoon. Op needed to be clearer and say she would be paying on Fri (or not suggest she would and then not actually do it) or state payment would be made on Monday. Problem solved. No need for 20 pages on MN.

No need for 20 pages on MN.

ALWAYS! It's MN.

@Hrpuffnstuff1
No presumption if the invoice says payment on receipt. Some even have card machines, so a third party handles the payment and then releases the monies.
Who cares about your life, excuses, pay the bloody bill on time as agreed.

My quotes specifically state payment terms, account details, etc.
The worse payers are other trades, unfortunately.
Anyhow, I only really have this problem once a month or so anyway.

The OP said the timescale was not mentioned in the quote - the first she heard of it was on receiving the invoice. And in any business, days mean business days. If Parcelforce tell you a delivery will take 48 hours and you send in on Friday, you expect it to arrive on Tuesday, not Sunday.

We can argue about this all day, but there's not much point because (a) the tradesman hasn't done anything illegal by badgering her for the money the next day, (b) the OP hasn't done anything illegal by paying the invoice within one BUSINESS day as any reasonable person would interpret it, and (c) it all therefore comes down to a subjective question of perception and what you want/expect as a customer.

Personally I am both paid and pay others by invoice regularly, and like that to be a friendly and trusting process. There's a difference between the completely justifiable need to protest against bad payers and make them pay, and badgering someone five times the next day after an invoice is issued stating one-day terms.

Personally I wouldn't want to use someone like that again because I wouldn't feel we have a relationship of trust. YMMV. The OP asked for peoples' feelings about it and got a variety of them.

The 19 minutes was a typo @Clymene - I meant to say 10 minutes - and it was a throwaway comment that referred to chasing her quickly after sending the invoice.

And those of you with nationwide who can confirm via text message with a new payee - how do you do that? My app insists on the card reader thing which is annoying sometimes if I want to pay for something and don't have it on me.

Just pay him and stop being a dick. You've had time to create a post on mumsnet, which probably takes about the same time as an online bank transfer. Idiot.

It’s not how trades operate here. It takes at least a week for an invoice to come sometimes many weeks.

And if he makes those his terms from the off, that's fine.

In this case, no payment terms were given until the invoice was issued on Friday evening. Those terms said "within a day", not "immediately", and unless the tradesman worked over the weekend it's reasonable to interpret that as a business day. Five texts over the weekend for an invoice issued on Friday evening is taking the piss.

Just pay him and stop being a dick. You've had time to create a post on mumsnet, which probably takes about the same time as an online bank transfer. Idiot.

Dear me RTFT. She paid him. You're making yourself look like the idiot/dick.

So has it.

The immediate payers or the dallies.

😂
The general consensus seems to be the payers.

This!

It's normal for tradesman working directly for a homeowner to be paid immediately upon satisfactory completion.

Actually I think I've just worked out what the problem is here.

Traditionally, there are broadly two different ways of paying for goods and services, with different customs and expectations. One is payment at the point of sale, the other is issue of an invoice and payment later.

Traditionally a lot of tradesmen, particularly smaller scale local sole traders, would work the first way: Spend three days doing something at your house and at the end of the third day you inspect it and if you're happy, give them cash or a cheque. Larger companies charging larger amounts and subcontracting the work would probably be more likely to invoice (or get payment in installments).

I think what's happened is that because of the convenience of online payment systems (and because nobody uses cheques any more), tradesmen who would ordinarily have done things the first way and been paid before they went home, instead give the customer their bank details and ask to be paid online - assuming that will be immediate because it's just replacing the cash or cheque payment on the day. Because of the way that looks though (issuing an invoice), some of us mistake that for a traditional invoicing system and think it's understood that there's no hurry to pay as long as we don't take the piss.

It's all just a big misunderstanding, isn't it?

@Fifteentoes I don’t think so. 30 years arranging occasional trades and this is the first time it’s come up. Usually I have to chase for invoice. Family members who are trades say 2 weeks plus for payment terms. It’s either a new thing, or a regional thing.

I think Fifteentoes is right

if you had a woman in to fix a dripping tap or mend your washing machine, a cash payment before leaving would be normal. If she was a windowcleaner a cash payment would be normal.

If you were running a business and had the air conditioning serviced annually, an invoice and monthly payment would be normal.

The trade supplier would calculate her prices to take account of a delay of a month or so in payment, and the costs of sending invoices, statements and overdue letters, and the risks that some customers would never pay ot would go bust; and would consider what credit to offer before accepting new customers. Debt collecion is a wearisome task. I could tell you an amusing story about one client.

The moment you change from "immediate payment" to credit terms, the time, effort and cost expand greatly, and you can't be sure when, or indeed if, you will ever get paid.

Consider the possibility that the trader has previously had people say "I'll pay you tomorrow"

And didn't.

Consider the possibility that the trader has previously had people say "I'll pay you tomorrow"

And didn't.

I'm sure that had indeed happened to him, people are awful. But chasing OP five times before one business day had elapsed is still way OTT, he had zero reason to think she wasn't going to pay, and pay promptly.

@Hrpuffnstuff1

"So has it.

The immediate payers or the dallies.

😂
The general consensus seems to be the payers."

It wouldn't surprise me if I typically pay quicker than all the "just pay the man" posters on this thread. Don't you understand that it is possible to simultaneously believe that one should pay very quickly if you can, and understanding that sometimes immediate payment is not compatible with life, and that 5 texts in 24 hours is harrassment?

RTFT - she didn;t get the invoice until after he had left. If he had asked for payment on the spot and had a card machine with him then I suspect he would have been paid immediately. If you want immediate payment then have the facilities for it.

And the trader should condier the possibility that harrassing people might not be the best way of getting payment. When I prioritize things arseholes often don;t go to the top of the list, call it my little helping hand I'm giving karma.

"Paying invoices is work"! Don't be so ridiculous. How is paying 1 invoice which takes a matter of minutes work?

Your terms are 30 days fair enough but not every tradesman has those terms. Once a job is finished the money is due. If that happens to be a Friday and you can't pay Friday evening then you pay it over the weekend.

What if it were a Bank Holiday weekend? I suppose you think then it should not be paid until the Tuesday?

The tradesman may be in need of that money especially if so many of his customers delay payment

The tradesman may be in need of that money especially if so many of his customers delay payment

🙄

Back to real life. 5 emails or whatever it was in the first 24 hrs. We are not talking about delaying payment here.

We are discussing DELAYING payment. We are discussing not paying IMMEDIATELY.

To an INVOICE over the weekend. That would have been part d by MONDAY.

We are not discussing delaying payments

paid by Monday

🙄 fingers