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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think a neurological typical 8 year old should know stealing is wrong.

49 replies

Reallytired · 12/01/2008 18:36

I caught my 8 year old nephew stealing money from my 6 year old's son money box. I was absolutlely furious, but my sil thinks I am over reacting.

I feel that the little boy should be punished by his parents. I think his parents are letting him down by not taking it seriously. It was only about 50p that he stole, but its the principle.

The age for criminal responsibly is stupidly low in this country. (I believe its about 10 years old?) If he stole sweets from a shop, the consequences could be really nasty for him.

OP posts:

FrannyandZooey · 12/01/2008 19:22

Reallytired you are comparing adults and teenagers with an EIGHT YEAR OLD CHILD

calling him a little shit is not on

your own child may one day do something embarrassing like this. I hope no-one makes you feel it is abnormal and wicked. It isn't. It's what children do sometimes. It's our job to teach them otherwise - it's a long term thing.

FrannyandZooey · 12/01/2008 19:23

100 LOL at him stealing to buy books

I would be in a tangle about that one

ahundredtimes · 12/01/2008 19:23

I don't think he should have to apologise to your son reallytired. Sorry, but I don't.

He was chancing it, thinking he'd get away with it. I don't think your son was a victim of crime.

BUT I would expect his parents to have a stern chat about it.

foofi · 12/01/2008 19:24

My 8yr old stole £10 from my 11yr old the other day (and still denies it even though we found it in her room). Kids are kids. I do think she knows right from wrong, she's just trying her luck. I'm not making a bit thing of it.

foofi · 12/01/2008 19:25

BIG thing

elliephant · 12/01/2008 19:25

I don't think it should be suggested that this deviant behaviour is a indication of neurological abnormality. Did his parents say anything to him at all about the incident ?

perpetualworrier · 12/01/2008 19:26

I stole a plastic ring (jewellery from a cracker)from a friend's house when I was 5. I can't have been any older, because we moved house before my 6th birthday. I knew it was wrong then and I still feel guilty about it now. Didn't stop me doing it though.

Of course an 8yo should know that stealing is wrong. I think the pushing the boundaries thing is right and seeing what you can get away with.

We all know it's wrong to break the speed limit, but hands up anyone who's never done it if they thought it was safe and they wouldn't get caught. Your SIL needs to make sure he knows stealing is something you can't get away with.

ahundredtimes · 12/01/2008 19:29

Ellie - what are you on about?]

Deviant?

She isn't suggesting it is a neurological abnormality. She is clearing the decks so everyone knows he's NT.

ahundredtimes · 12/01/2008 19:30

And lots of children who aren't NT do steal or do other things which NT children should know not to do, simply because their social understanding is different.

Greensleeves · 12/01/2008 19:30

God Franny, I had almost forgotten how lovely you are

I agree with all your posts on this.

I wonder, if you took 100 normal, luck-pushing mixed-up unpredictable 8yo boys who had stolen from a piggy bank, gave half of them a gentle but firm sit-down discussion about stealing and why it isn't on (followed by a talk, with real listening, about how they were feeling generally), and came down on the other half like a ton of bricks, how the re-offending statistic would look? Oddly, my gut feeling is that the first group would have more empathy and less need to do it again, whereas the latter group would experience a whole confusion of anger, guilt, shame and general 8yo scattiness, and would be more likely to disploay the behaviour again. But I might be wrong, I suppose

sis · 12/01/2008 19:32

Elliephant, I think the OP is making it clear that the 8 Year old in question is neurologically typical. If she didn't, a lot of the early responses would be to ask if he had any special needs that made it difficult for him to know 'normally' social acceptable behaviour.

elliephant · 12/01/2008 19:34

100, perhaps I just read the title in different way to you. To me it suggested that there was something not just wrong but abnormal in this 8 yr old's act. MPOV is that he was wrong but not atypical.

Reallytired, meant to add that my comment " IMO children need direction and intervention at this age not criminalization." was a response to the OP's statement that " The age for criminal responsibly is stupidly low in this country. (I believe its about 10 years old?) "

ahundredtimes · 12/01/2008 19:34

Oh I see. Sis explains it well I think.

Original poster

Reallytired · 12/01/2008 20:19

Peachy,
I am in awe how you cope. I think that a lot of depends on the level of understanding of a child. Autisic children vary considerally in how they are affected. A social story is a better approach for a child who really does not understand. Do social stories work with a child who UNDERSTANDS precisely what they are doing?

I think that with autism, it is different. I know a child who has an obsession with picking up shiny things rather like a magpie. They have no awareness that they are stealing.

I suspect that autisic children are more likely to be victims of crime than commit crime.

OP posts:

FrannyandZooey · 12/01/2008 20:30

"God Franny, I had almost forgotten how lovely you are"

well I expect you were too busy eating vile sandwiches and smelling of tuna to remember

Greensleeves · 12/01/2008 20:31

Peachy · 12/01/2008 20:56

Now that depends on the ASD child LOL- ds1 is often a victim in terms of bullying etc but just as much the criminal. And he does understand; he just ahs no empathy so his needs are always uppermost.

Social Stories, imo, are fantastic for ALL children. if your child was off to playgroup you'd share a book about that; why not everything else?

Oh and I don't cope better than anyone else; my house is a tip, I slept all afternoon and I had to get takeaway for dinner . LOL

Peachy · 12/01/2008 20:58

Oh and really you'd need to specify what punishment was meant.

For example, a smack or something extreme- no

but we'd, say, remove Wii time (our current enforcer) for this. 'punish is a big concept

mrsruffallo · 12/01/2008 21:05

I don't really thing punishment is in order- he was trying to see what he could get away with. I stole sweets from our corner shop when I was this age. I knew it was wrong and I am a law abiding adult.
As he was caught tho' his parents need to discuss it with him and explain why it is wrong but I think that should be the extent of it

Crunchie · 12/01/2008 21:21

IMHO I would go mental. Soory but I would.

There are certain things that cross the boundries, they don't happen often, but this is one of them. I would expect - demand - an apology.

I am sorry some of you think sitting down and discussing self esteem issues is the answer here, I find that totally against what I believe in.

I will admit right here I was done nce for shop lifting and taken to the police station - everything - at 13 and I never ever did it again, I was too scared.

In this situation my DDs if they did this (aged 6 and 8) would know it is beyond the pale and would be severly punished.

My other MAJOR one is lying, I will not tolerate it, and I come down HARD on it. I did this once, and I am sure my kids now understand.

I wuld do the same here. BTW I would evoke privilages, eg for DD1 riding lessons - her favourite thing, DD2 would be harder as she is only 6, but here punishment for lying is the next Bday party she is invited to she cannot go. She knows this and it means she won't lie again.

FrannyandZooey · 12/01/2008 21:24

I also think that I would prefer my child to learn that stealing is wrong because IT IS WRONG, it is damaging to our society, and because of the effects it has on other people, rather than that they mustn't do it because they will be caught and punished

I think focusing on the punishment very heavily incurs the risk of the latter happening

TotalChaos · 12/01/2008 21:24

I think expecting an apology is reasonable enough.

Original poster

Reallytired · 12/01/2008 21:35

Its not up to me to say how another child should be punished. Certainly I am not in favour of a child being hit or any child abuse.

I think that punishments need to fit the crime. Prehaps its better to think of negative consequences for bad decisions, rather than a child being made to suffer.

If my son did this, then I think I would dock his pocket money. It would make him realise how someone feels who has lost his pocket money.

Would my son get a massive telling off. I am not sure. Sometimes telling him that I am disappointed in him and he has let me down in a quiet and gentle voice is incredbily effective. It reduces him to uncontrollable floods of tears.

OP posts:

Greensleeves · 13/01/2008 13:02

"Sometimes telling him that I am disappointed in him and he has let me down in a quiet and gentle voice is incredbily effective. It reduces him to uncontrollable floods of tears."

Reallytired that is an evil thing to do IMO.

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