: to pull DS2 out of playgroup after one session and not want to pay the cancellation fee?

[policywonk]

OK, so I'm not a big fan of nurseries/playgroups, but thought I'd take a punt on putting DS2 into our local group. He had his first session yesterday: I stayed with him for 90 minutes then left him on his own for an hour before coming back to pick him up.

1. His key worker - specified in the paperwork I signed as someone who would help to settle him in - was not there, and no one else was asked to keep a specific eye on him.
2. While I was at the group, a small girl was left to weep unattended for at least ten minutes that I saw.
3. When I returned to pick him up, he was sobbing in the middle of the playgroup floor, unattended.

So I went to see them this morning and said I'd changed my mind - didn't go into details as the manager wasn't there. The deputy manager told me I'd be liable for a month's fee, as set out in the contract.

My point is, I rather feel that they broke their contract with me by not giving him a key worked for his first session.

Am I being totally precious and unreasonable?

not allowed to cuddle children? ffs

our PG just rolls its eyes at all this form filling stuff and does the bare minimum

they had a Parents'Evening and I said oh fgs she is 3, what are you going to tell me really, she can't write and they said hmmmmmm and agreed

load of baloney imo

I just want them to be happy, learn to sit on a carpet quietly (not worked with dd2 yet) and let me clean my house without them being underfoot for 2 hours

a lot of nurseries/preschools have a free trial session anyway before they make you pay - in case you don't like it and change your mind.

I'd say they hadn't fulfilled their part of the bargain, tell them you're upset about the kids being left to cry and say you're not going to pay the cancellation fee.

Thank you Newyear, it is very useful to have a professional perspective! If you could find out about the settling-in period thing that would be great.

OK, I will give the playgroup the benefit of the doubt about the little girl - maybe her parents had specified that she should be left.

moondog whining maybe, but not sobbing [shock} And the keyworker thing is is not/ should not be just on paperwork.

YANBU, but I would writa a letter to the manager, stating why you feel this way.

not unreasonable. the very least you can expect from a playgroup is that your child has a designated adult to care for him and that the children there are comforted when upset. that's just basic humanity and if the nursery teachers don't display this, what does it say about their empathy/compassion ?(both are necessary for working with children imo)

How horrid for you and ds Pol. You are quite definitely NBU.

I had similar experience and changed my mind - well, it wasn't even that bad - just lolling children with nothing to do, playworker staring into space etc.

It is insanity not to have had ds2 introduced to a 'special teacher' on his first day - someone that he can look for if he has ANY problems or worries or questions etc.

Little girl crying 10 mins? Dreadful.

Your lovely boy sobbing uncomforted when you got there - oh, unbearable.

I would phone right now, and make appt to see the manager asap. Use the word 'very alarmed at what I observed of your methods yesterday,' to give them notice that you are not faffy mother with separation anxiety.

Go with notes and go through one by one. 'What is your policy on such and such, because I was rather shocked to see that.." etc.

definitely get their cuddle policy.

And if you don't get a hugely apologetic 'please forgive us, everything went wrong that day and I can assure you it will NOT happen again' then I'd take him out and threaten small claims court and local paper if not refunded.

Gosh, I'm quite arsey aren't i?

Thanks everybody. I was expecting a proper telling-off for being pathetic.

Somehow suspect that this might be one of those situations in which Mumsnet says one thing and The World (in the form of the playgroup manager) says another, but we'll see tomorrow.

I think its a bit of both tbh!
If the keyworker not being there was very important to you then you shouldnt have left him once you knew that she wasnt in that day unless you were happy with the staff that were covering for the key worker. Plus its natural to take one or more sessions to settle in to a new nursery so I would def say you need to give it a bit more time if you think there will be long term benefits to him going.
On the other hand, it was his first day and as a Mum I would expect the staff to pay extra attention to him if he was upset etc and to specifically look out for it and distract him to help him settle in. You turning up to collect him to find him crying and unattended is terrible and I would be complaining about that for definite!
If you have made your mind up to not give it another go (altho you could try staying with him again another time for a bit longer and watch how the staff are to give them another chance?) then speak to the manager and explain why you arent happy and try again to avoid the cancellation fee. If they stick to their guns and you really dont want to take him any more then I'd say swallow the fee and put it down to experience!

keyworkers in nursery i used for my 2 daughters were very involved in their keychildren's care. but playgroups (ie mornings with proper workers but some parents helping out) different kettle of fish in my experience, far less good practice even though they're also assessed by Ofsted.

Ooooh blimey OBM. Will you do it for me?

I AM a faffy mother with separation anxiety, that's the problem. However, can see it would be impolitic to let them see that! God... do I have the gonads?

What happened with you then (was it DS or DD?)

'Cuddle policy'? Fantastic. I want a cuddle policy, never mind the playgroup.

I just BET they bring up the fact that I am still bf-ing, which will make me see red (partly because I privately suspect that this is making him more clingy where I am concerned).

Do it. I have just posted about DS2's nursery and every instinct told me to pull him out. I didn't because he suddenly settled after weeks of being unhappy so I didn't want to disrupt him again, but they are as hopeless one year on as they were then.

Just don't go back.

Of course I will Pol.

However, I should point out that DP thinks that my strategy might make you look like SCARY INSANE mother with separation anxiety. (Bad thing? Not sure..)

He said that trying to pretend that there is not an element of reasonable anxiety on your part will undermine your position. God he's so.. reasonable. Somewhere in between us is the right place, I think..

Do you think, perhaps, that if they bring up the BF thing in a big way that might be another indication that this place is not for you? Whatever your own assessment of the sitch is.

DD was still being BF during day when she started with childminder, and I think you're right, it did take a bit longer for her to settle. (Was totally fine in the end though)

HOWEVER this is an entirely separate issue to their lack of care for upset DS on his first day, I think.
xx

Gosh, your DP not only intensely reasonable but also interested. My DP would be utterly astonished if I even asked him for an opinion on someone else's childcare travails.

Yes, you are right about their attitude to bf-ing. Sod's Law, he asked for about seven feeds while I was there because it was an unfamiliar sitation, and several of the staff did double-takes.

Will let you know what happens...

I find putting my face Right In Front of DP's and Talking Very Shrilly usually gets a response on any matter I care to raise, simply to make it stop.

This is dreadful. You are definitely NBU.

Agree you should make an appointment with the manager and raise the specific issue of there being no keyworker (or suitable substitute) as well as your general concern at the lack of appropriate care for children in visible distress.

Breastfeeding is not relevant to these issues. Many children are clingy and anxious in these situations and it can be for all sorts of reasons. If they try the bf line on you can point out that he was not the only child to be left to cry alone.

Anyway, I'm sure you will come across as utterly reasonable. If you scare the manager, it will be for all the right reasons. Good luck!

I'm really surprised that they don't allow you to pay a pro rata rate for a few trial sessions before commiting to a monthly fee. That's what most around my way do - the fact that they don't and that you felt let down by them (completely fairly imo) on first day would not play very well if it does go to small claims.

Best of luck.

Firstly, I think you are right to act on your gut instinct and remove your son from the setting.
Re the money, did you have a written agreement that you can check? Personally, if it wasn't a large sum, I would walk away and put my energy into finding another place.
Horrible experience for you and your DS, but unfortunately really kind caring places seem to be in short supply.

I breastfed dd2 until she was 3 (once a day, before bedtime) and she went happily to nursery. bollocks about it making children clingier,.

I would pull him out. Ds's nursery was the total opposite of this.

I think an hour was a long time for him to be left on his first day, even though you had stayed for 90 mins before - until they're used to the routine they don't know you're coming back! I did this to DD1 when she was nearly 3, left her for far too long because she was happily engrossed when I left (and I didn't say goodbye either, at their suggestion) - it took her ages to settle down after that. (Bad Mother )

I think I would give it a few more goes before giving up, but leave him for a shorter time initially - maybe just 15-20 minutes - and then gradually extend it. (And see if your first observations of children being left alone to cry continue)

'If they try the bf line on you can point out that he was not the only child to be left to cry alone.'

Ooooh IB, that is cunning.

Chippy, yes did sign contract that specified a month's notice and no settling-in period, so not a leg to stand on there really.

Thanks everyone for the moral support - was feeling foolish this morning after yanking him out.

Well I have had a result!

The playgroup manager rang me this afternoon, presumably having been told that I'd withdrawn DS2. I outlined my concerns (didn't mention the little girl, just the lack of a key worker and his being upset and unattended), and she said that she couldn't possibly charge me a cancellation fee under the circumstances.

Huzzah!

You say huzzah! PW. You are marvellous.

Oh bloody well done!