Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Hired a disabled woman in lockdown who I now have to fire

554 replies

Whatnextteletext · 05/04/2022 21:14

During the first lockdown I hired a physically disabled woman into an entry level role on my team. She’s in her mid 30’s but it’s her first job because pre-pandemic, she couldn’t work out of the home due to her disability and work from home opportunities were few and far between. She is a wheelchair user who lives with a full time carer who takes care of he personal needs (this is relevant to why she couldn’t work out of home) and prior to lockdown, she lived on her disability payments alone which from the sound of it was very hard going.

I hired her into an entry level web development role with on the job training and it turns out she’s wicked smart and a phenomenally fast learner. I’ve put her through some web development training and within 18 months she’s now a pretty decent developer and by far the most competent of the cohort I hired along side her. She’s also lovely and we get on really well.

Anyway, when I hired her, my company were committed to WFH and hybrid working long term. Now however, they’ve backtracked and everyone is back in the office 3 days a week mandated.

Today I had an email from the senior team asking why this employee hadn’t been back to the office so I explained that she’ll be working from home forever given the circumstances (that they’re very aware of!) and the reply I got was that she’s no longer suitable for the role now that the expectation is work from the office and I needed to let her go.

I hit the roof and went straight to HR who are looking into this now, but I’d like to know from here what is likely to happen??

If they come back and say she’s got to go and I have to fire her I’m handing my notice in on the spot, that’s a given. How likely is that though? Surely it’s discrimination?

It’s also really stupid. It costs a fortune to train new developers properly and I’ve invested a huge amount of my time into her. It’s a complete candidates market at the moment too - developer roles are everywhere, it’s really hard to find ones with the right training and she’s good enough that with a bit of off the record support she could freelance fairly easily.

Her contract doesn’t specify a place of work or working model and there is no reason on earth she couldn’t perform the role perfectly adequately from home. We all did for 2 years.

Does anyone know where we stand legally on this one? She’ll have 2 years service in June.

OP posts:
Original poster
Whatnextteletext · 05/04/2022 22:31

@ThinWomansBrain

if she left/contract terminated, would you be able to employ her as a freelance consultant (on a more advantageous rate)
Actually, yes! I have full control over our freelancers (of which their are many!) and don’t have to get sign off on who we work for or what we pay them - if she’s fired (and it won’t be me doing it) this is 100% what I’m going to do Grin
OP posts:
thequeenoftarts · 05/04/2022 22:32

@Whatnextteletext

I’ve just logged on to download her reviews and I’ve got a reply from the HR director.

They have spoken to the leadership team this evening and would like to meet with me on zoom first thing tomorrow morning and have asked that I don’t pass the email onto my colleague or talk to her about this in the meantime. They’ll update me in the morning and thank you for bringing it to their attention.

It reads like a well considered place holding response - fingers crossed that’s a sign they’re on the ball.

Thanks all, I can go to the meeting in the morning knowing the legalities and likely outcomes now which is very helpful.

I’ve decided in my own mind that if the outcome is no further action, I’m not going to tell her. On balance, I don’t think it does any good and it’s likely to make her feel othered and ‘less than’ which serves no purpose other than to clear my conscience. We’ve had chats before about her feeling like she can’t do things or needs more help from me than the others which isn’t at all the case - I don’t want her knowing she’s being protected or shielded by me when she’s fought so hard to be independent in the first place and is here completely on merit. She’d feel like we were keeping her because we couldn’t sack her rather than because she’s brilliant. Her confidence would take a real knock and for no reason.

You are such a lovely person.
Archepsych · 05/04/2022 22:32

Yes they can - being non disabled isn’t a protected characteristic. It doesn’t matter what rules apply to everyone else

FairyLightPups · 05/04/2022 22:32

Please don't resign and leave her to deal with being fired by someone with no heart. Please fight for her. This is a clear case if discrimination.

StoneMap · 05/04/2022 22:32

www.scope.org.uk/

This is a charity that gives online/telephone advice on equality for disabled people. It may worth a try!

Elderflower14 · 05/04/2022 22:33

You are an amazing caring boss... Well done on thinking about your employee and putting her needs first... ♥

NeverDropYourMooncup · 05/04/2022 22:35

@Whatnextteletext

I’ve just logged on to download her reviews and I’ve got a reply from the HR director.

They have spoken to the leadership team this evening and would like to meet with me on zoom first thing tomorrow morning and have asked that I don’t pass the email onto my colleague or talk to her about this in the meantime. They’ll update me in the morning and thank you for bringing it to their attention.

It reads like a well considered place holding response - fingers crossed that’s a sign they’re on the ball.

Thanks all, I can go to the meeting in the morning knowing the legalities and likely outcomes now which is very helpful.

I’ve decided in my own mind that if the outcome is no further action, I’m not going to tell her. On balance, I don’t think it does any good and it’s likely to make her feel othered and ‘less than’ which serves no purpose other than to clear my conscience. We’ve had chats before about her feeling like she can’t do things or needs more help from me than the others which isn’t at all the case - I don’t want her knowing she’s being protected or shielded by me when she’s fought so hard to be independent in the first place and is here completely on merit. She’d feel like we were keeping her because we couldn’t sack her rather than because she’s brilliant. Her confidence would take a real knock and for no reason.

Don't forget to accidentally hit record on your phone.

The meeting could be telling you to shut up.

JacquelineCarlyle · 05/04/2022 22:35

You sound great Op. Hope it goes well in the morning and you (& she) get the right outcome.

Feduppluckingmychinhairs · 05/04/2022 22:36

Can I just say @Whatnextteletext the world needs more people like you

Nothappyatwork · 05/04/2022 22:36

Oh definitely PM me with her CV we are absolutely desperate will take her off your hands

k1233 · 05/04/2022 22:37

I'm not sure what you've emailed to HR, but I'd be inclined to use some of the points here and send a follow-up email clearly outlining your concerns

  1. Her physical disability was known when hiring
  2. Her need to work from home was known when hiring
  3. She has had excellent reviews and is one of your best from her cohort. You've invested significant time in training her and she fulfills the requirements of her role while working remotely (I'd attach her reviews to the email)
  4. you are concerned that termination of her employment is discrimination against her disability.

I put things like this in writing because then people can get them in a right for information request (in Australia). Puts a bit of pressure on people to do the right thing.

gettingolderandgrumpy · 05/04/2022 22:39

@Elderflower14

You are an amazing caring boss... Well done on thinking about your employee and putting her needs first... ♥
Agreed was just going to say the same thing . So many bosses would just go .’oh well ‘because they don’t like to disagree with senior management. They Just say ‘it’s not my decision ‘when in reality they can very well say something they choose not to . Hope this gets sorted op .
jotaaaaaa · 05/04/2022 22:39

Employment lawyer here, these things are never black and white but if your employers were my client I would be telling them to tread very carefully indeed. Clear risk of claims of failure to make reasonable adjustments, direct discrimination, indirect discrimination and discrimination arising from a disability if they do not allow her to continue home working in the circumstances you have described

dondon23 · 05/04/2022 22:40

Wow, this is absolutely disgusting behaviour from your employer.
I'd love to hear what your HR Dept say about this - please let us know

Original poster
Whatnextteletext · 05/04/2022 22:40

@FairyLightPups

Please don't resign and leave her to deal with being fired by someone with no heart. Please fight for her. This is a clear case if discrimination.
Don’t worry I’m not going anywhere until we’ve exhausted our options and it’s clear we can’t stay.

I’m in her corner every step of the way on this one, the ‘if she goes, I go’ route is way down the line.

Now I’m thinking it’s ‘if she goes, I’m hiring her back as a freelancer and paying her a freelancer day rate’ Grin

OP posts:
Fere · 05/04/2022 22:41

OT
@Whatnextteletext @FuglyBitch if you know of any vacancies for quite Junior developers please let me know. I just finished a FT coding bootcamp and together with quite few of my colleagues we are looking for Front end, Back-end and/or Full-stack.

ign0re · 05/04/2022 22:41

If only there were more managers like you! Hope all goes well tomorrow!

HeArInGhandsgirl11 · 05/04/2022 22:44

Does she have access to work funding? I would say this would be a reasonable adjustment. Awful situation

Original poster
Whatnextteletext · 05/04/2022 22:45

I’ll sense the tone with HR in the morning and if it’s a bit off, I’ll ask if I can activate meeting record through teams to continue the conversation.

If they refuse I can say I’m not comfortable having the discussion without proof of my words given that I think the company are potentially acting illegally and can terminate the meeting on that basis and resume the conversation in writing.

I don’t think it will come to that though. I’m expecting tomorrow to be ‘we’re very sorry, it was an action by one individual who didn’t appreciate the situation fully and you can disregard everything’ - if it’s not this I’d be gobsmacked.

OP posts:
Saffy321 · 05/04/2022 22:46

Wondering if this thread is a wind up, hiring a perm straight into a freelance position would screw her for IR35 which you should know OP. Next HR don't just say to fire someone there are legal processes to go through.
Finally if she's an awesome web dev then she fully deserves to work for a better company.

Wetblanket78 · 05/04/2022 22:50

That's really sad if she can do the job from home I don't see what the issue She will be high risk.

GreenLunchBox · 05/04/2022 22:51

It's indirect discrimination.

Original poster
Whatnextteletext · 05/04/2022 22:52

@Saffy321

Wondering if this thread is a wind up, hiring a perm straight into a freelance position would screw her for IR35 which you should know OP. Next HR don't just say to fire someone there are legal processes to go through. Finally if she's an awesome web dev then she fully deserves to work for a better company.
I’m joking about hiring her back as a freelancer - sorry if that wasn’t clear. I very much doubt she’d want anything to do with us if she got fired in this way.

HR haven’t said to fire her - the senior leadership team have said if she can’t return to the office like everyone else then she will ‘have to go’. The reality of this would be a capability process if it got that far. Think start up, not very savvy leadership team who are in management positions for the first time and not suited for it.

I agree she deserves a better company. Once she’s got another year under her belt and a bit more training in another specific area other than ours, she could work absolutely anywhere. She probably could now with a bit of help.

OP posts:
notwhatineednow · 05/04/2022 22:54

@sweeneytoddsrazor

I have no idea on any legalities but I think the key maybe you say hybrid working. To my mind that is a combination of home /office so not entirely wfh. I think you could push how competent and talented she is, but I suspect your employer will say that they can't let 1 person work entirely from home if everyone else has to spend sometime in the office.
Why on earth not given she's disabled?
balloonsintrees · 05/04/2022 22:55

So the only reason she would be let go is because she can't come into the office; the only reason she can't come into the office is due to disability not incompetence.
Your senior leadership don't have a leg to stand on and this would run into hundreds of thousands of taken to tribunal.
(Former wheelchair user, investigated this quite a lot a few years ago)

Swipe left for the next trending thread