Is teaching really that bad?

[Cremeegg456]

I did a secondary PGCE and gained a pass with Merit, and 'outstanding', that was 6 years ago and I've never completed my nqt year.
I know the PGCE isn't representative of what actual teaching is like though but I remember it being what seemed like a lot of unnecessary paperwork, but we also had the assignments on top.

I've done various work with young and elderly people since which I've enjoyed, but I've never made a lot more than minimum wage. Had zero hours contracts, agency work etc.

I did enjoy teaching but I am just not prepared to work evenings and weekends as well, it's just not worth having no life for me. Not prepared to work more than 45 hours a week.

But truthfully if I want a higher and more stable income I think I would have to go into it, if I'm thinking of buying a house, children etc in the next few years.

Would be interested to hear from people as to what their work life balance really is.

Don’t you have to complete your NQT within 4 years of passing your PGcE?

@Whatsonmymindgrapes

Don’t you have to complete your NQT within 4 years of passing your PGcE?

No. This has been asked and answered on the thread, more than once. The answer is easily available via Google.

How would parents even know? It's like the best kept secret only known within the inner workings of education.

What would you like to know about, whytcvv? The huge cuts to funding? The redundancies? The critical shortage of teachers? The critical shortage of headteachers? The govt failure to meet recruitment targets every year? That the school estate needs basic repairs costing £11.4 billion? That there's a bulge of kids heading towards secondary which will mean a shortage of secondary school places?

Happy to explain anything you're not sure about.

When did you start teaching, @noblegiraffe?

Over 15 years ago.

I don’t think there is a single year I’ve been teaching in which people haven’t proclaimed it to be the absolute worst, teachers leaving in droves, behaviour at an all time low, etc.

How would parents even know? It's like the best kept secret only known within the inner workings of education

Seriously? The state of education as a parent is something you really should have an active interest in. In fact, as a citizen of this country with a vested interest in our country’s long term future, you should have an active interest in education. If you have missed the shit show that is GCSE reform under Gove plus years of austerity, pandemic, and now war, you really aren’t very interested in anything at all. Educate yourself. Take some bloody responsibility and listen to what is being said. Our education system is in crisis and has been for some time. It is not a secret.

I don’t think there is a single year I’ve been teaching in which people haven’t proclaimed it to be the absolute worst, teachers leaving in droves, behaviour at an all time low, etc.

Maybe things are getting worse.

@Howeverdoyouneedme

I don’t think there is a single year I’ve been teaching in which people haven’t proclaimed it to be the absolute worst, teachers leaving in droves, behaviour at an all time low, etc.

Maybe things are getting worse.

If you go back to 2011, 2013, 2016 on here you can see near enough identical threads on here with the same claims, even the same wording. Teachers leaving in droves. No qualified staff. Class sizes too big.

Yet you start a thread about private schools and you have loads of posters insisting there’s no difference and bright students do well anywhere - they clearly don’t, if the claims above are true.

People are unhappy though. And I’m convinced the children aren’t really enjoying it either.

Yes

@Sleepingonmyfeet

I don’t think there is a single year I’ve been teaching in which people haven’t proclaimed it to be the absolute worst, teachers leaving in droves, behaviour at an all time low, etc.

Sure, which is why it is useful to look at data.

There have been large real-terms falls in teacher pay over the last decade and more, particularly for more experienced teachers. In 2021, teacher pay levels remain about 8% lower in real terms than in 2007, just before the financial crisis.

ifs.org.uk/publications/15552

Or that school spending per pupil in England fell by 9% in real terms between 2009–10 and 2019–20, the largest cut in over 40 years.

ifs.org.uk/publications/15588

Or that two thirds of heads report cutting teaching staff to save money www.suttontrust.com/news-opinion/all-news-opinion/two-thirds-of-school-heads-have-cut-teachers-to-save-money/

Or that the ratio of pupils to teachers has increased in the last 10 years, or that teachers report increased working hours since 2013.

Or you could look at the teaching vacancy rate which for secondary classroom teachers across all subjects has risen from 0.4% in 2010 to 1.1% in 2019.

[[researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7222/CBP-7222.pdf]]

How about the evidence that the standard of maths required to get a C equivalent at GCSE has fallen by about a grade in the last ten years?

ffteducationdatalab.org.uk/2021/03/has-a-gcse-grade-c-4-lost-its-value/

The data is pretty grim.

If we really want to look into the history of state education and to try to find a golden age, I don’t think there is one. I know a lot of people like to hark back to the grammar school systems of the 50s and 60s as a social equaliser but as most people know, it was only a social equaliser for those who passed.

Then I know a lot of teachers (who are old enough) like to fondly look back on the 70s and 80s as a time of wonderful freedom. Perhaps it was great if you were a teacher but I was a student at that time, and my teaching was dreadful. No sense of logic or continuity in anything, and the sarcasm and unpleasantness some teachers ruled the classroom with was awful.

I left school in the 90s and I started teaching in the 2000s and supposedly money was being pumped into schools at this time. I’m sure there was but it didn’t trickle down to the humble classroom teacher. Behaviour was dreadful. Assaults on teachers not unusual and certainly in my subject the workload was terrible - the coursework and later controlled assessment system was crippling in terms of marking, moderation and actually getting the students to do it.

Then everything changed again and I do prefer this system but it’s also flawed: dull and repetitive. And of course a pandemic to boot.

So what do we do? All attempts so far to make state education brilliant have not been successful as far as I can see, and have all had consequences for teachers that aren’t good.

I did enjoy teaching but I am just not prepared to work evenings and weekends as well, it's just not worth having no life for me. Not prepared to work more than 45 hours a week
Teaching definitely isn't the job for you if you only want to do 45 hours a week.

Giraffe - I can well believe all of that. I’m not disputing it for a moment and will have a proper read now.

It doesn’t change the fact that identical things were being said over ten years ago. I think that’s the heart of the issue really. People don’t look at the data - they go off what they are told. It every year teachers say they are leaving in droves, it does become meaningless even if technically true.

*if

So what do we do? All attempts so far to make state education brilliant have not been successful.

I haven't ever seen any attempts to make state education brilliant. I've seen people pushing agendas which suit them. Tweaking superficial things because they know it will be difficult and expensive to fix what really needs fixing. Constantly and pointlessly moving the goalposts. Adding things to teachers' workloads just to look as if they are improving something. Setting schools in unhelpful competition with each other through league tables.

But when those things didn’t happen, what was the result?

@maddy68

Actually you have to complete your induction within 4 terms of completing a pgce ((unless that has changed ) so sadly I don't think you can teach now

I did mine 10 years after my PGCE.

Well, from my memory those things started happening in earnest about 15-20 years ago. As far as my experience goes, I was generally taught well at school (1980s).

I started teaching in 1996. It was great. Absolutely loved it. I worked with lots of good teachers, who were much more free to teach in their own way, and were not overloaded with admin and hoop-jumping tasks. There were a few crap teachers, as there still are and always will be but, just like there are a few crap people in any job. Scrutiny and league tables have not made teachers better, though they might have made teachers, and certainly schools and their senior leaders, more savvy about how to look as though they are better.

That’s the issue though @Fairislefandango. It was pot luck whether you were taught well or not. I can honestly say I learned nothing at primary school, really, honestly, nothing.

Covid defo hasn’t helped that’s for sure.

I feel pretty broken most days, I would stop if I didn’t love the kids I teach so much; each year I think I’ll see these exam classes through and then the next lot etc

I work in a subject that is usually perceived as one of the most difficult at secondary level.

We have a department which requires 8 teachers at all times. This year alone, in this department, 2 were walked off site (frankly not fit to teach), 1 quit because they were deceived into essentially working for free under the cover of "training", 2 have been off with work-related stress for several weeks each, 3 quit within days of starting because of behaviour and now we have 2 definitely leaving and almost everyone else looking to leave.

Behaviour has got worse and more parents feel entitled to our time at all hours - thanks remote learning.

Behaviour is worse because a large minority of students admit to doing no work over either lockdown and therefore can't access the curriculum. It's worse because lack of funding means that many SEND students who would, years ago, have had individual support are just being thrown in with the rest of a large class. It's worse because there is NO support for EAL students (last time I had a TA specialising in EAL was more than 12 years ago) and the only thing we can rely on is poor translations via PowerPoint in the hope the kids know the highly technical words in their own language (hint: they don't, why would they?)
It is also worse because the Mikaela school model of zero tolerance and insistence on perfect uniform, work and behaviour is one-size-fits-all and doesn't take into account that, on many days, Johnny is lucky if he finds a half-chewed pencil in his bag.

And then there is pointless paperwork. I was in a meeting today doing data analysis of an exam and pointed out that there are systes out there that could export this and complete the analysis for me. I was told this was in the name of "ownership" of my classes (which, funnily enough, I share). So what could be a 5min read-and-take-action plan will take a total of 3 hours of inputting data from two different sources and bullshitting about how Amy will achieve better if only (she had a consistent teacher) she was moved to the magically-expanding front of the class and not distracted by Jack, who is spitting gum into her hair every lesson, but I can't do anything about it as anything more than talking to him would upset him and he'd never produce work again: it's in his plan.

On that note, a colleague got pulled into the head's office the other day because a student was upset he used the wrong pronoun and is now traumatised.

I just wish
-we could do away with uniform (believe me, having lived in a country without, it makes no bloody difference)

-all students could bring the very basic materials to lessson (I used to have to take all of my own, including text books) - just a pen, pencil, ruler and calculator would be grand

-there was some reason applied to data analysis, i.e. Lucy is never going to achieve a 9 in her GCSEs despite her KS2 SATs data because she is looking after her baby brother while mum is out working shifts and then she's too tired to complete revision work - and that's fine, no amount of ringing home and changing seating plans will make that any better

That’s the issue though@Fairislefandango. It was pot luck whether you were taught well or not.

It still is. It always will be. The problem with the current system is that it doesn't stop bad teachers from being bad, but it stops virtually all teachers from being as good as they could be, by overloading them with bullshit. Not to mention edging out and alienating experienced teachers in favour of young, cheap cannon fodder.

It's worse because lack of funding means that many SEND students who would, years ago, have had individual support are just being thrown in with the rest of a large class

Believe me, this happened when I started teaching, in 2002.