DB young fiancée

[Whereartthou]

Younger DB and I are in our late forties. As children we were very close. As adults less so as he became very bad tempered. Until this year he had never had a long term relationship. He often made comments about not wanting to tie himself down to a woman who would boss him around and get old. Despite his bad temper and occasional misogynistic comments he is not a bad person. He often admitted he wouldn’t make a good husband as he dislikes other people in his space and so would stay single. He was always good to my parents and to my DC. Recently, out of the blue, he has got engaged to a woman in her twenties - 20 years younger than we are. I barely know her yet. I’ve told him I’m happy for him and I am as I sometimes worried about him. However I feel sad that any residual closeness we had may now dissipate as he will focus on her and her much younger friends and eventually their much younger children. A part of me also feels that while I dismissed his occasional misogynistic comments about women, especially older women, as just his general irritability, now it seems as if there may have been truth to it after all. As I am older than him I feel a little odd about it all. I’ll be happy for him but…any thoughts in general out there? I should be glad he’s ok and just let him get on with his life, shouldn’t I?

@Wondergirl100

The thing I don't get OP is that you are bothered by the idea of him having a family. That seems really sad - so he was around to be part of your life when you had young children but now you don't want him to do the same.

Surely if he had kids you could be part of their life as a supportive sister? Isn't that a bonding experience?

I’m not bothered by him starting a family at all. I’m glad for him. Just insecure about the fact that he - and many other men my age - are choosing women so do much younger than I. It’s their choice of course but that doesn’t mean I can’t worry that I’ll become invisible. It’s not an unreasonable thing to privately worry about and unless I behave badly towards others as a result it doesn’t make me selfish, controlling or a monster.

I’ll be delighted to be involved with any children he may have.

@Lasttimeneveragain

You and your brother had the same parents? So where did DB get his opinions and views from? Do you think you've been unconsciously brought up to feel similar? Now you're panicking as you reach that age of invisibility.

I don’t share these views but that doesn’t stop many men from having them.

I’m being very negative now but as I said, that’s how this has made me feel right now. Hopefully it’s a phase.

I’m not bothered by him starting a family at all.

And yet you said:

However I feel sad that any residual closeness we had may now dissipate as he will focus on her and her much younger friends and eventually their much younger children.

@milkyaqua

I’m not bothered by him starting a family at all.

And yet you said:

However I feel sad that any residual closeness we had may now dissipate as he will focus on her and her much younger friends and eventually their much younger children.

A good point. I guess what I mean is, although I’m happy for him, my concern is that if he has a much younger family and circle of friends - and has a problem with older women - he may have less in common with us and choose not to see me and my family as much. It’s his choice but it doesn’t mean I can’t regret it.

I’ll be delighted if it isn’t the case.

@Whereartthou

Sorry, those are comments he’s made “in jest” but I think he means them.

He sounds like a catch😳

Hopefully she’ll be able to educate him to be a bit more pro women, especially given that he has a sister.

You sound like a great sister, concerned and loving. He’s lucky to have you. My husbands brother has taken up with a woman who is 20 years younger than him. They do look a bit like she’s out with her dad whenever we see them. They slobber all over each other when we see them which is pretty gross. We have to keep telling ourselves that as long as he’s happy that’s all that counts.

I do get this. Over the years me and my DB have got less close. When we were younger I was probably the second most important female in his life after our mother but now he has a female partner and two daughters so I’ve been understandably pushed down the order. But things change and I just have to be happy for him.

OP, as sad as it is, both men and women can start again at any time of their lives. The solution is not to worry about younger people taking over, the solution is to care and nurture your relationship so you are able to trust each other not to write off the marriage when you get to your 40s/50s.

You would be surprised to hear this, but most divorces take place after the second toddler arrive (when the mum may feel alone after taking full responsibility for raising the kids and keeping the house ticking) or the man is bored of being ignored when the attention shifts to the kids.

The other big time when people leave is when the youngest child turns 18 / leaves for University. In most cases these people were already in dead relationships for years just holding on for the sake of the children.

It is not very common for a man or woman to be looking for a younger replacement if they are happy in their own relationships. I had a friend had a go at her by the wife of a man who she met in OLD. Yes, she was younger, but... what the hell was the husband doing trying to meet people in OLD? If he had been happy at home he wouldn't have been there.

Someone once told me that when it comes to bad relationships "women leave when they are fed up, men wait until they find someone else". I think there is an element of truth on that.

I'm not sure why you're getting some harsh responses OP. I would find this situation quite unsettling even while being happy for my DB.

I'll say it; 20 year age gaps are unusual for a reason. I hope it works, I hope they're happy but if I at 52 was getting married to a 32 year old man I don't think anyone would see that as typical or wouldn't have the odd question. If id spent the previous 20 years publicly complaining that older men couldn't get decent erections or earn enough, they'd see me as a sexist twat I think and would have felt sorry for my dh. And my brother would have the right to roll his eyes at me.

So. I think you have every right to be unsettled, and I think the chances are that he will be telling you in a few months years all about the miracle of parenthood and how amazing it is, and you will be expected to marvel at the amazingness of his offspring at length,despite having ignored yours. And what can you do? Such it up and hope she is a bright cookie who will be a good friend. That's the best outcome.

I should be glad he’s ok and just let him get on with his life, shouldn’t I?

Yes.

His boys boarding school may be where he picked up misogyny as it didn’t come from your dad. But equally it may just be him.

He doesn’t sound like much of a catch tbh and I wonder if his fiancée will stick with him.

If he’s grouchy now think what he will be like in 20 years!

I can't comment usefully on your relationship with your brother, but I do sympathise a lot with your feelings about his attitude towards women.

There are almost 8 years between me and my husband, and in the early days of our relationship he had a friend who to this day I dislike. (They're still friends, but back then were very close.) This friend is slightly older again than my husband, and he was single at the time and constantly turned up to events I was hosting or attending, essentially to try and get in my friends' pants. I was about 23-24, husband 30-32, and I think friend was around 34-36 (if I ever knew his exact age I've forgotten it). He never even pretended to like me very much, so it was completely transparent why he was attending. He was actually generally very dismissive and impatient with me, clearly because there was no point in extending pleasantries to women who were not sexually available to him. He came to the most unlikely events just to scout out my female friends. I could never put my finger on exactly why I found this quite so gross and enraging - although I'd hold my hands up to resenting the dismissive attitude towards me coupled with the complete exploitation of me as a gateway to women in their twenties - but to this day it gives me the rage to remember him swanning around my house, or turning up at my birthday parties, and sliming all over my friends. In theory it makes sense as a mid-thirties singleton to target younger women who are statistically far more likely to be single, or maybe even just to attend any and all party you can attend regardless of who's throwing it, but he wasn't just a fun, lonely social butterfly. There was a definite sense of single-mindedness about it. He wasn't trying to find a partner, he was specifically trying to find a young partner, and gravitated towards women who were stunningly out of his league, and often not even single. It was so painful to watch him make a beeline for women he wouldn't have had a cat's chance in hell with, and I found myself enjoying some very unedifying schadenfreude when he failed comprehensively to appeal to any of my friends, and readily confess that when asked about him afterwards, I enjoyed apologising for the desperate old weirdo that followed my boyfriend around.

I also sympathise with this unease carrying over into anxiety about your own marriage. It's now 10 years later and the friend has been married and swiftly divorced, and I sometimes worry about his presence in my husband's life in the future. I think he was a very bad influence before, and though my husband has grown up a lot, the friend doesn't seem to have at all. He still has a palpable sense of entitlement and the disastrous marriage (and it was disastrous) doesn't seem to have altered his attitude in the slightest. He even stayed in our house a while ago when he needed (divorce related) emergency temporary accommodation, and even then he didn't really manage to be more than loftily tolerant of me, even slightly snide when we'd opened our doors to him, and didn't display any gratitude. I just have to hope my husband's outgrown his influence - a while ago we had a couple over who have never met him, and as I was describing him (I forget why he came up), the woman asked 'do you think he's a bit of a misogynist?' and my husband immediately nodded and agreed, with an ease and enthusiasm which surprised me.

@Whereartthou

Also he is not at all violent or abusive.

Take the blinkers off OP. I know he's your brother so it's hard to accept but ... you know a man doesn't have to be violent to be abusive, don't you? And I wonder if his intelligent fiancee would be going ahead with the marriage if she knew about remarks & attitudes like this - ?

He often made comments about not wanting to tie himself down to a woman who would boss him around and get old. Despite his bad temper and occasional misogynistic comments he is not a bad person. He often admitted he wouldn’t make a good husband as he dislikes other people in his space and so would stay single.

Even you, his sister, is less close to him now due to his bad temper.
He says himself that he is bad husband material.
So it's puzzling that the thrust of your OP seems to be that you're scared of losing any "residual closeness" in favour of his fiancee & potential children.

I'm sure, if this marriage pans out, you can arrange to stay close to your brother. A good way to do that would be to befriend his fiancee.
Although I think you should have far less concern about your closeness to your woman-despising brother than about the fact that he is getting closer & closer to a lovely young woman. She's the one who's going to bear the brunt of his anger, ageism, refusal to accept a woman as equal, & certain knowledge that he himself knows he would make a bad husband.

MNet is really weird.

Not that long ago, there was a thread about an age gap relationship where the woman was early 20s and her fiance was mid 30s. There were accusations of near paedophilia.

Now, a 20 year age gap is thought of as fine and his sister is being selfish for worrying about it.

How odd is this?????

I think OP you are right to worry about this mainly as your brother is so inexperienced with women. He may have chosen someone he can manipulate and overrule, but without knowing her it's hard to say.

I do know men who have married women 15-20 years younger and often the women were less educated, less well off and looking for security at the expense of a 'soul mate'.

Equally, I have a friend who when she was around 50, married a widower in his 70s.

Clearly for your brother's fiancee the issues are that when she is 60 he may well be dead or in ill health. I assume she's thought of this, but who knows?

If you are close to your brother, I'd ask when the moment is right, if the age gap worries him/ them and it's something they have discussed.

@ChargingBuck I think you are making too much of the comments in bold.

People are allowed to change their minds, you know! The fact he liked his own space may well be something that, as he's over 40, has less importance. A lot of men do not want to be alone in old age.

Likewise his temper- it is something he can control.

And, maybe all of the above were just excuses for being single.
People can come up with all kinds of reasons to explain their singledom, when in fact often they just haven't met the right person.

In the kindest possible way, OP.

Sod your brother - I'd be telling the woman to run a mile.

Your brother has more red flags about him than a Communist parade.

I also think this post is proof positive that clearly, that many of us do know these types of men, that they are family members and friends etc and we just make excuses for them.

Very sad.

I do need to leave them to it - I don’t want to be the SIL from hell. It’s just all made me think about things (not just DB) in a new and slightly sad way.

It's not an either/or, OP.
You can retain closeness to your brother AND address your concerns about your own marriage, AND become a good friend to the fiance.

Was your dad sexist in his views too?
Is that where your brother learned to look down on women?
His remarks about women "falling off a cliff after 30" lookswise is revolting, but it seems to have cut you deeply enough to make you worry that your DH may be harbouring similar thoughts.

That's a horrible worry to be carrying around, & I'd love you to be able to ditch it, by viewing it as the ridiculous tired old trope it is. Women over 30, or 50, or even 70, are not faded flowers to be scorned or pitied - but people who believe that are certainly to be pitied ... or scorned.
Many women find themselves having these kind of doubts when the kids are grown or nearly grown - with that change of purpose comes a re-examination of who they are, how their marriage is faring, where they want to be in their careers - it can feel a bit overwhelming.

Would you be open to getting some help to boost your confidence & sense of self-esteem? A course of talking therapy, a new hobby, a "just about us" celebration weekend away with DH where you could talk over your worries & make time for some genuine closeness?

DB's fiance could be a welcome new friend. Younger pals have so much to offer, as do older ones - you have experience, they have energy & new ideas. Sometimes that even happens the other way round! - & that's stimulating, like getting an new inter-generational look on life for both parties.

@SpudleyLass

In the kindest possible way, OP.

Sod your brother - I'd be telling the woman to run a mile.

Your brother has more red flags about him than a Communist parade.

I also think this post is proof positive that clearly, that many of us do know these types of men, that they are family members and friends etc and we just make excuses for them.

Very sad.

That’s a bit harsh. She said he made “occasional” mysogynistic comments about older women. Not ok but quite frankly not more red flags than communist China either,

This is actually about the op ageing and being insecure about a young attractive woman joining the family.

[quote DevonBelles]**@ChargingBuck* I think you are making too much of the comments in bold*.

People are allowed to change their minds, you know! The fact he liked his own space may well be something that, as he's over 40, has less importance. A lot of men do not want to be alone in old age.

Likewise his temper- it is something he can control.

And, maybe all of the above were just excuses for being single.
People can come up with all kinds of reasons to explain their singledom, when in fact often they just haven't met the right person.[/quote]
Point taken, Devon ... BUT all we know is that he has changed his mind about marriage. OP hasn't made a single comment about any change in his attitude.

& when a man tells you who he is, write it down in bold, & believe him!

@Mothersister
Your post made me laugh

@ChargingBuck
Your last post was lovely.
Some lovely comments here and also food for thought. Thanks all!

@ChargingBuck

I do need to leave them to it - I don’t want to be the SIL from hell. It’s just all made me think about things (not just DB) in a new and slightly sad way.

It's not an either/or, OP.
You can retain closeness to your brother AND address your concerns about your own marriage, AND become a good friend to the fiance.

Was your dad sexist in his views too?
Is that where your brother learned to look down on women?
His remarks about women "falling off a cliff after 30" lookswise is revolting, but it seems to have cut you deeply enough to make you worry that your DH may be harbouring similar thoughts.

That's a horrible worry to be carrying around, & I'd love you to be able to ditch it, by viewing it as the ridiculous tired old trope it is. Women over 30, or 50, or even 70, are not faded flowers to be scorned or pitied - but people who believe that are certainly to be pitied ... or scorned.
Many women find themselves having these kind of doubts when the kids are grown or nearly grown - with that change of purpose comes a re-examination of who they are, how their marriage is faring, where they want to be in their careers - it can feel a bit overwhelming.

Would you be open to getting some help to boost your confidence & sense of self-esteem? A course of talking therapy, a new hobby, a "just about us" celebration weekend away with DH where you could talk over your worries & make time for some genuine closeness?

DB's fiance could be a welcome new friend. Younger pals have so much to offer, as do older ones - you have experience, they have energy & new ideas. Sometimes that even happens the other way round! - & that's stimulating, like getting an new inter-generational look on life for both parties.

I meant this post @ChargingBuck

@ChargingBuck Sometimes, people (men and women) make self-deprecating comments to cover up the fact that they can't find anyone to love them.

It's very easy to take comments like 'I'm a miserable, bad tempered bastard who likes my own space' at face value, when what the person is saying is they don't feel very confident with women (or men) and haven't been able to find a partner (for all sorts of reasons.)

So no, when a man or woman says that stuff I'd not write it down and believe them, I'd look a bit deeper at what was going on under the surface.