School has banned Kickers shoes! I have bought them for DS. AIBU to to let him wear them and start a fight with them if they try to sanction him?

[CarefulDriver]

DS is starting secondary school next week. The school uniform regulations on the school website dictate that they wear black shoes (no trainer like shoes). Fine.

I bought him a pair of Kickers as I wanted comfy shoes which will last him most of the year. I know from previous experience with DS1 and 2 that the ‘businessman’ style shoes don’t last if they’re playing footie at break! Most of the DCs at their school wore Kickers and so did they once I caught on.

Chatting to friend who’s DC is also going to the same school yesterday and apparently the school has banned shoes with visible branding on which Kickers have. This is not on the main school uniform webpage which is what I checked to get his uniform but on a sub page for new Yr7s which I had read but only skimmed over the uniform bit as assumed it was the same as the main page.

I spent £68 on shoes, which IMO are common school shoes, he may not now be able to wear. He won’t be wearing out of school either obviously! I got them online direct from Kickers with a 14 day return policy which has runout now.

WIBU to just send him in on his first day in them?

Change is coming. But not yet.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58359541

And not getting the advice to schools before the new term is just the sort of pissarse incompetence we have come to expect from this Education Secretary.

What kid wants to wear a pair of black loafers on weekends? Kickers are not fashion shoes for teens, they are school shoes. I’ve never seen a teen wearing a pair of kickers on a non-uniform day. That is the most bonkers suggestion I’ve seen so far.

Should have purchased some proper school shoes for him then there wouldn’t be an issue.

They are black leather loafers. Every other school kid round here wears kickers for school. Why do people keep saying they aren’t “proper” shoes?

Id e-mail Kickers or whoever you bought them from and ask to return if theu are unworn and still being sold full price.

Will save yourself a lot of drama.

School uniforms have some purpose, I suppose. They give the kids a sense of identity and reinforce conformity, they also try to iron out potential issues of inequality between those who wear prestigious clothes and those who don't.

Yet, all these potential benefits are compromised when rules about uniforms become rigid and take to focus away from education and socialisation and on to the fact that some child's black shoes are a different brand to others, or some child's top is a different shade of dark blue.

So, I suppose, in the tradition of rebellion within conformity, OP should just do what others are suggesting, get rid of or disguise obvious labelling, and carry on regardless.

By the way, does anyone remember the uniform list that included navy blue knickers for girls?

There’s a local school here that insists on plain coloured bags and coats - any logos must be coloured over. They even insist on a navy blue carrier bag if they need to bring ingredients in or anything.

It’s an over subscribed high performing school 🤷🏻‍♀️ I find it OTT but if that’s what they say then that’s what needs done.

Our kids all have to line up outside in forms and issues are sorted there and then. There’s a grace period at the start of the year but then it’s as stated in the rules.

Those shoes look absolutely fine. I am a stickler for the rules normally but there is absolutely nothing wrong with those shoes. I'd stick to my guns!

£11.99 shoes are rubbish particularly for growing children's feet when they are going to be worn 8 hours per day 5 day a week. A £68 pair of good quality shoes is in no way extravagant for something that is going to get this much use and is less likely to store up problems for the future.
Schools really need to wind their necks in with this crap. Going by recent school uniform threads on here on the one hand schools don't want kids having good quality 'expensive' shoes in case someone can't afford them, yet at the same time expect them to have a ridiculously priced blazer and logod pe kits. You'd think they just get a kick from kids being uncomfortable or something.
Remember your taxes pay their wages - they work for you.

I'd fully expect that a school that has a stick up its arse about uniform minutae will likely be looking to crack down from the first day so op's son is likely to get pulled up.

Completely agree, user147.

Kids in secondary also have adult-sized feet, so their shoes are the same price as adults'.

Remember your taxes pay their wages - they work for you

Excellent. I'll see you in an Employment Tribunal for all the unpaid hours you owe me dealing with this sort of nonsense.

I can’t get over the fact that we find it acceptable that children are punished for something that is not within their control. This is abuse by people who are supposed to be safeguarding them and is carried out across schools over the country with barely a word spoken about it!

Exactly this - a child of this age is not likely to be going out and buying their own uniform with their own money (and if they are then there are bigger problems to address than what shoes they are wearing). They will be wearing what their parents have purchased and won't personally be able to do anything about so harassing and punishing the child is futile. A civilised establishment would have a quiet explanatory word with the child then contact the parent to discuss further. I'd view it as bullying in some cases & expect it to be treated as such.
Isolations and exclusions and mistreatment by teachers by will affect a childs learning far greater than a pair of kickers ever will.

YANBU.

Secondary state uniform policies are ridiculous.
It’s a head teacher’s way of exerting every little bit of control they can over the children. It’s like something from the 1950s. Like a pp stated they want to homogenise children. They want worker drones. No individuality encouraged at all.

To put a child in isolation or detention over a tiny label (on otherwise very sensible school shoes!) is just wrong.

As an ex teacher my theory is that they do it because they have a belief that it’ll ‘raise’ standards in their school and that it’ll make them look good on their Ofsted report. Because that is the main con you all HTs. Everything they do is with the ofsted report in mind.

It’s never for the children. It’s not what’s best for them. It’s sod all to do with rich/poor. It’s about control.

If it's not on the website page, I'd pretend I hadn't heard it from a 3rd party tbh, who may have got it wrong anyway.

The origin of all this are the medieval foundation schools that took in poor children and provided them with a school outfit because they were dressed in rags. These schools over time were colonised by the wealthy and their uniforms became ever more elitist and exclusionary.

The state grammar schools of the early 20th century after the 1902 Education Act felt the need to adopt uniforms in imitation of the 'Great' schools to establish a reputation, and the post-1944 secondary schools did the same.

So it is by now deeply rooted in English, if not British, culture that a 'good' school is one that forces young people to dress up like they come from a bygone age, and a school that does without uniform rules is therefore a school with no rules at all.

Allison- I agree. I don’t know many teachers that care whether a kid in their class has small red and green tags on their shoes, how they wear their hair or how many stripes they have on their tie if they are polite, hardworking and enthusiastic about learning.

Some Headteachers and senior leaders are really obsessed with uniform though. I think you’re right, they think that it will raise standards somehow or that Ofsted will be impressed by it. I really don’t think either of those things are true.

Mädchen in Uniform (1931)

shop.bfi.org.uk/madchen-in-uniform-dual-format-edition.html

A landmark of Weimar cinema and seen by many as the first lesbian film. The finnicky obession with uniforms and militaristic discipline at the school where elite Prussian officers sent their daughters is prophetic in where is shows Germany was heading at the time.

Safeguarding issues today, which would not approve of Frauline kissing all the girls at bedtime.

they're put in plimsoles apparently - not sure which the kids would find more "abusive"). They're pre-empting this type of stuff.

What do they do if you actually send your kids in plimsolls?

At DD's school they would have had detention or an isolation. I agree that schools are ridiculous about uniform rules.

So plimsolls are allowed to be warn if they're provided by the school for pupils who turn up in the wrong shoes. But they are against the rules if you come to school in them yourself. Crazy!

Id e-mail Kickers or whoever you bought them from and ask to return if theu are unworn and still being sold full price.

Will save yourself a lot of drama.

OP can ask but Kickers absolutely do not have to agree to it! They have their rules too and their rule is a 14 day return period which has already passed.

Some Headteachers and senior leaders are really obsessed with uniform though. I think you’re right, they think that it will raise standards somehow or that Ofsted will be impressed by it. I really don’t think either of those things are true

I think they do it because it's so much easier than working on important things like raising academic standards and turning out children who understand basic manners, kindness and tolerance. They perceive discipline as being something that will appeal to parents, and they also perceive that parents like uniform. The latter in particular is becoming less and less true, but it seems to be taking time for headteachers to realise it. Let's hope the new government guidance, when that idiot Miller gets around to releasing it, will improve things.

Those shoes are fine, send him in them and deal with the school if it comes up. Be polite, say you didn’t know but you won’t be replacing them until you can afford a new pair.

You have a lot to learn about Secondary School and the pettiness of many rules.

Having said that, most schools say no kickers, no Air Force ones, no yellow stitching DMs etc.

It's hard to know how strict they actually will be. Ours says none of the above but usually only crack down once or twice a year. They are especially strict at the start of term though.

I'd stick them on eBay and get some plain ones. Plenty of options out there.

I think they do it because it's so much easier than working on important things like raising academic standards and turning out children who understand basic manners, kindness and tolerance.

a)They aren’t mutually exclusive.

b) There’s no point in a non branded uniform policy, or no hoodie policy or skirts to knee policy or whatever else they have if you don’t actually enforce it.

c) Following the school rules is part of “basic manners ,kindness tolerance”. You don’t just do what you want in life because you feel entitled to.

I blame Kickers myself.

If they are meant to be school shoes then they shouldn't make them with bright red and green logos on them.

Though having looked at the website, these appear to be 'adult' and there is a separate 'school' section, so maybe those aren't so visibly colour logoed.

I like the shoes.
They look smart and sensible unlike the idiots that make the rules.