To be rude in this situation? [Content warning added by MNHQ: Child abuse]

[Question2149]

My parents have lived on the same street since I was small as have most of the people on it.

I had two close friends growing up who lived on the same street who I still speak to now although not as close these days as we've all grown up and moved away, had families etc.

One of the girls I used to play with on the street contacted me a while ago to say that there was an investigation going ahead relating to a man on the street inappropriately touching her when we were children. It has also come to light through this that it's not the first time he's been accused, he was accused previously by someone else of the same thing but was never charged. He is also denying this accusation from my friend.

I have been asked about that time, whether I remember anything, whether anything happened to myself (I believe not) and other than checking in on my friend occasionally have not had any further involvement in the situation.

My dilemma here is his wife is always trying to say hello, ask how I am, how my DC is, ask to see my baby etc... when I go to see my parents. It's incredibly awkward and I feel like she is trying to gauge which side I'm on.

I want to tell her straight not to speak to me, that my position is that I believe my friend and want nothing to do with either of them, even small talk. He has also tried to say hello and I have blanked him completely but the grey area for me is his wife.

Would you continue to say hello, or respond when asked how you are to this woman or would you think it acceptable for me to be rude and ignore her or even just say straight up "please don't speak to me"?

I absolutely believe my friend and so to me this is a woman who's stayed with a man who's twice now been accused of this.

[Tal45]

You don't have to talk to anyone you don't want to. Just politely say you'd prefer it if she didn't speak to you anymore.

[DueOct30th]

I would say something along the lines of ‘hi Diane I know this is awkward but you must understand why I can’t talk to you, especially when I have the kids with me’ (if the kids are with you obviously).

It might be rude but not overly confrontational - some places they would be absolutely hounded with abuse so if all she gets is a bit of an abrupt comment she’s lucky really.

[IamtheDevilsAvocado]

@TreeDice

This sounds really tough but I'm a firm believer in innocent until proven guilty. There's too many issues not to in the legal system including human error, memory issues, malicious reports etc etc. If you were wrongly accused of something that became common knowledge, how would you want to be treated?

You can support your friend and believe what you want about the man without assuming facts you dont have access to.

In terms of the wife, if you're not comfortable talking to her, then avoid or politely suggest that you arent comfortable at this moment in time.

Innocent until proven guilty is a LEGAL principle....

I don't want to alarm anyone... But we ALL know there are many, many, guilty, dangerous people out there (sex offenders particularly because if issues of reporting /evidence and victim vulnerability). .... If you don't believe this... Think..were he still alive... would you like Saville to babysit precious children as according to your perspective... He's 'innocent' as he was NT proven guilty in a court....
He wasn't innocent ... At all...

I worked with many families of sex offenders where the children in said family had been raped by the (step father/father /uncle) man who had never been 'found guilty' of previous allegations and had moved around the country using false names... But the women chose to follow the trope... Innocent until proven guilty...and of course these men were grooming whole families too...

Utterly awful, awfully true.

[EmeraldShamrock]

She is complicit I wouldn't speak to her she is testing your boundaries.
I wouldn't be rude I'd ignore from here on.

[yacketyyak]

Op I'm in a similar situ to yourself.
I completely blank the husband. Don't even look in his direction.
The most I'll give the wife is a half hearted smile. If she tries to talk I just rush on
I believe she was complicit in his actions so I don't give a fuck if I'm rude or not

[RealBecca]

Are you actually asking how to get her to leave you alone without having to actually say that?

There really is nothing wrong with saying that you're aware of your friends accusations and you believe her. Or blank her. But she either has no social awareness or doesnt care so speaking up is your only option. Its ok to use your voice.

[EmeraldShamrock]

So many women are complicit and although many are abused themselves.
I watched the Joseph fitz documentary his wife stuck with him when he was released from prison for rape, she didn't notice him building a bunker for 6 years after his release before her DD disappeared, she then adopted legally 3 of those DC from the basement but apparently had no idea her DD was down there.

[Justilou1]

If you have already spoken to the police on behalf of your friend, I think you should also mention the wife’s behaviour and the gift. You’re right that they are trying to buy allegiance. It is possible that she had no idea but I doubt it, and I personally wouldn’t risk having my kids anywhere near her. I think you should trust your intuition. The fact that she is continuing to insist on confronting you despite you stating “Please don’t speak to me as I believe x” might not be enough. Maybe say “I believe X and all the other little kids.”

[GrolliffetheDragon]

@Itsmeagainandagain

Again if he hasn't been found guilty he therefore is an innocent man... Look what happened to that man who was accused of being a paedophile, turns out the person lied through her teeth and it ended up a witch hunt the man killed himself, an innocent man forced to take his own life because he was branded a paedophile, there is a reason these things go to court and to be tried in. How many innocent men have been jailed for someone else's lies?
Not saying your friends a liar but none of us here are judge, jury or executioner. Until he is found guilty and until that day he is innocent. Then you can let loose and ignore his entire family.

But there's a chance it will never go to court. There's a chance that, if it does, he will be found innocent even if he's not.

What then?

OP believes her friend. An innocent verdict doesn't mean her friend is lying. If it doesn't get as far as a trial, it doesn't mean her friend is lying. It wouldn't make OP suddenly feel fine to be friendly with the neighbours.

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

@Itsmeagainandagain - yes, if he has not been convicted, he is an innocent man in the eyes of the law - but that does NOT mean he is actually innocent of sexually abusing the OP's friend and others, when they were children.

Surely we all know that many cases of sexual abuse, paedophilia and rape either do not get to court at all, or do not result in a guilty verdict - but that does not mean that the crime did not take place, it means that the evidence was not strong enough for a conviction - and in such cases - especially historic sexual abuse cases, it can often come down to 'he said, she said' and it can be very hard to find corroborating evidence. Does that mean the rape/abuse did not take place? Of course not.

So, as it is perfectly possible for someone to have committed these offences and still not be found guilty, we need to acknowledge that legal innocence does not mean actual, moral and ethical innocence.

[TheCrowening]

@Itsmeagainandagain

Again if he hasn't been found guilty he therefore is an innocent man... Look what happened to that man who was accused of being a paedophile, turns out the person lied through her teeth and it ended up a witch hunt the man killed himself, an innocent man forced to take his own life because he was branded a paedophile, there is a reason these things go to court and to be tried in. How many innocent men have been jailed for someone else's lies?
Not saying your friends a liar but none of us here are judge, jury or executioner. Until he is found guilty and until that day he is innocent. Then you can let loose and ignore his entire family.

I mean there’s a massive difference between organising a full scale witch hunt and ignoring his family.

As others have said, there’s a huge difference between legal standards of proof for conviction and believing and supporting a friend.

I also think far fewer innocent men are in jail because of someone else’s lies than there are guilty men walking about freely.

[Justilou1]

To the “He hasn’t been found guilty” brigade…. That’s how his wife has justified sweeping it all under the rug and allowed herself to choose to remain “blind” to what’s been happening under her nose, and remain with him.