Trying to include families in financial hardship in Scouting?

[Bumble2021]

Hello 👋🏻
I’ve a family at the local Beaver Scouts that literally cannot afford the monthly subscriptions. Looking online, everywhere says that no one will be excluded from Scouting due to financial problems, but when the mum spoke with the GSL about being unable to pay her child’s subs, she was told that they had “never had anyone not be able to pay before!”, which I thought was probably not the most sensitive thing to say!
Any mums, especially those who are Scouting or Guiding leaders, have experience in this area? I’ve only been volunteering for a couple of months, so this is all new to me.
Thanks for your time ladies x

I'm on the exec committee of our local scout group.We claimed grants from local government which I'm sure all areas have due to full closure during covid it covered all our outgoings apart from the Census etc which we covered from our fundraising pot.

Some of our parents still paid subs throughout others paid nothing we ran our troup on zoom for 18mths.We actively seek grants from local businesses and we are quite lucky that we get those grants yearly when we meet criteria is this something that your group could look into ??? Most companies will have money set aside for the local community it just takes time and effort to find them.
Otherwise district is your next port of call as we donate to district for the hardship fund as our group is doing well and some in the area may fold without districts help.
We do have families that don't pay at all but as a group we cover those costs ourselves but we are ruthless fundraisers and very frugal with our money.

I'm surprised that children in foster care are being offerred financial assistance. My sister is a fister carer and she gets paid costs for anything like this.
Agree that the Army/air and sea cadets are brilliant st assisting those on low incomes and they provide do many more opportunities in our area than the scouts/guides do. Including very low cost DofE.

As an ex Brownie Leader, we wouldn't have charged this family.
However our subs were only £2.50 per week (£25 per term).
For residentials, I would have covered this child's costs in the budget. We were open on this policy to parents, encouraging them to tell us if they couldn't afford something. Although not open as to who wasn't paying, obvs.

Do the cadets get help from the Army etc for funding? Their subs do seem lower than scouts etc

That’s not how it works though. The subs from parents didn’t cover the whole cost of running the groups for a start

@Iggly I'm a brownie leader and our entire running costs (including our annual payment to hq of £35 per girl and per adult) is covered by our termly £30 a girl subs.

£90 a year: less £35 for the Brownie census, less about £6 to cover the leadership census payment, leaves the unit £49 over the year to cover rent, badges, leader training, equipment etc.

Last year we charged £5 for the terms we ran on zoom but that was to cover amazon and postage for the stuff we sent home.

Great to mention fundraising, not seen many parents stepping forward to take this on, so the expectation that volunteers with full time jobs and caring responsibilities will absorb this is unhelpful.

The most constructive way to help would be to suggest that the leaders offer a payment plan to spread the payment. I've done that when for reasons I've declined to waive costs.

We asked everyone to donate any old uniform and every child who needed it would have uniform given to them. Where some children were bigger than others we used to just rotate it round so eveybody had hand me downs as the bigger ones left the younger ones got the uniforms.

As far as subs were concerned we would register but not charge the child. If there were trips we used to take it out of unit funds unless very expensive then we would access district funds. No child should have to miss out but equally if parents can pay then they should.
We were mooting whether we should be asking parents who are saying that they cant afford it to complete a means test. I thought this was intrusive and the chancers and pisstakers would lie anyway.

I hope you come up with a workable way round. Its lovely for a child to feel included in something, they remember these gestures into adulthood its really important.

ineedaholidaynow
Yes cadets is heavily subsidised by the government. My DSs army cadet unit (he left 2 years ago) was £1 a week. Uniform was completely free and included several times shirts, 2 trousers, belt, shirts, socks and a jacket. Literally everything they need other than boots (but they had donated ones for those that needed them).
The weekends away were £12 inclusive of all travel and (very good) food.
The summer camp was £60 for 2 weeks at various army bases and included activities from sailing, horse riding, and climbing to parade and shooting. He has even been up in their helicopters. There would usually be a day at a theme park too. It's the army, the food is decent and they are used to looking after people, so they weren't allowed to get bored and no one was allowed to misbehave.
Air cadets is more expensive and you have to pay for the uniform. My DD did air cadets and didn't do half so much in terms of activities or opportunities.
I was a Guide leader in the past and have to say I think cadets is much better organised.

@Becles I know it takes time, but it’s really worth a look at funding sources. I know our local brownie group get money from some of the places we do (we’re asc and holiday playscheme).

Especially when there are initiatives on - like just now there are funds giving money for sporty or outdoor activities or healthy eating as part of tackling the obesity issue. Community focussed grants are a great help if you have the time and chance to look at them.

Most of the guiders I worked with moaned a lot about how much they had to do and how entitled the parents were/how rude the children were. Might have just been the units I was involved with but I've seen them criticise kids for holding their cutlery incorrectly "says a lot about the patents" or having socks that were less than sparkling white. A particular thing that upset them was kids turning up with camping things in bin bags, "you can tell what kind of home they're from" It was very snobby.

Thank you to those who’ve taken the time to comment. I just thought I’d make it clear that this is a case of genuine need. The pot is empty after the rent and council tax have been paid...in fact she is already in the red by then. So it’s not the case of the family choosing not to pay. The mum lives off tea and toast (about 1 loaf a week),whilst she cooks homemade meals for her child to make sure he gets everything he needs. She had been volunteering every week as a parent helper and was keen to join the uniformed side of things. However, since arrears have crept up, she’s been getting funny looks and eye rolls in her direction and has stopped coming as she finds it so uncomfortable. I would say it’s a well-off area, and subs were collected in full during all of Covid. Activities are usually very low budget eg. make a poster one week, games on the field another week, draw a map of the scout hit another week. There has only been one trip/outing in the past year +, and although only £13, it was made clear to her that if she didn’t pay, her child would not be able to attend. He’s a very keen little chap, and I really feel for them as Beavers gives him a little piece of normality when all other extra-curricular activities are out of reach.

As a Brownie leader this is a tough one. Although it is a large organisation it is in the main run entirely voluntary and as such relies on subs and donations. Our unit charges weekly subs which cover the rent, the cost of the annual membership/insurance for girls and sometimes depending on numbers there is some left over for badges, and various things we need each week. The reality is as leaders we invariably spend our own money buying things. I buy my own uniform, pay my own cost for any camps or day activities. We try to do various fund raising activities but these are rarely supported by parents who claim they already struggle with all the school fund raising activities.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

Weve had this at our group. Some children got a grant from district. The children in Foster care we just absorbed the cost (although if we had had more than a couple, we would have had to ask for help). As a group lots of fundraising was done to keep subscriptions low.

Not sure why foster parents wouldn't be able to pay ? They get a significant allowance to foster children?

I just wanted to say how important it is. One of my godsons had a pretty bad childhood ( poverty, parent with severe mh issues etc), but the one great thing in his life as a teenager was going to sea scouts and being encouraged by other parents who were looking out for him. I expect fees were waivered as his dad would not have had the money to pay. The sea scouts and the encouragement he received to go on to University etc has had a massive impact on his life and his future.

Sorry, I haven't RTFT, but I am a chair of a Scout Group and your GSL should be more aware of issues like this and also of the need for handling requests sensitively. We would waive the fee as a group or offer for a family who approached in this situation to pay a token amount, and there is always second hand uniform available for nominal cost or free. We have also heavily subsidised trips so that no-one is excluded on ground of finance. You could approach the Chair of your group as there should a procedure to deal with this. We cover the costs out of our general funds, and fundraise regularly (pre-Covid) which covers costs of replacing kit and this sort of situation.

As a group treasurer of many years, the GSL should be ashamed of herself. The section leader should bring the circumstances to the Exec Committee's attention herself/himself and ask that subs be waived. If the group itself is in hardship then they can ask District for help and advice. If the child in question receives pupil premium then the school can, if they are particularly helpful and supportive, use part of that to pay the child's subs on the basis that it improves the overall outcome for the child - we've hasd this happen for a cub before. Also the group could contact local charities such as Rotary clubs, Lions, etc, all of whom may help.

@Bumble2021

Thank you to those who’ve taken the time to comment. I just thought I’d make it clear that this is a case of genuine need. The pot is empty after the rent and council tax have been paid...in fact she is already in the red by then. So it’s not the case of the family choosing not to pay. The mum lives off tea and toast (about 1 loaf a week),whilst she cooks homemade meals for her child to make sure he gets everything he needs. She had been volunteering every week as a parent helper and was keen to join the uniformed side of things. However, since arrears have crept up, she’s been getting funny looks and eye rolls in her direction and has stopped coming as she finds it so uncomfortable. I would say it’s a well-off area, and subs were collected in full during all of Covid. Activities are usually very low budget eg. make a poster one week, games on the field another week, draw a map of the scout hit another week. There has only been one trip/outing in the past year +, and although only £13, it was made clear to her that if she didn’t pay, her child would not be able to attend. He’s a very keen little chap, and I really feel for them as Beavers gives him a little piece of normality when all other extra-curricular activities are out of reach.

@Bumble2021

There has only been one trip/outing in the past year

Seriously? I've been working with people face to face every day of the past year. I'm sole carer for 3x people and have future family events that I want to stay well for.

During a pandemic, running weekend activities outside the weekly face to face meeting is a bit much.

She needs to speak to the Scouting equivalent of Guiding's District or Division Commissioner.

The group I'm involved with would cover costs of anyone who couldn't afford it and we have parents who give us uniform they have finished with and we give it to anyone who needs it.

I meant that there has only been one “thing” that needed payment in addition to subs. It was a couple of weeks ago and the Beavers met at a lake about a mile from the Scout hut.

@Bumble2021

I meant that there has only been one “thing” that needed payment in addition to subs. It was a couple of weeks ago and the Beavers met at a lake about a mile from the Scout hut.

@Bumble2021

There has only been one trip/outing in the past year

Seriously? I've been working with people face to face every day of the past year. I'm sole carer for 3x people and have future family events that I want to stay well for.

During a pandemic, running weekend activities outside the weekly face to face meeting is a bit much.

@Becles

Sorry, I’ve made a right hash of trying to reply to you. Sorry, this is my first time here. This wasn’t a weekend “event”. We just met at a local location different to the usual Scout Hut. This £13 was charged in addition to the monthly fees and it was instead of our usual Beaver meeting and at the same time and day. I was trying to show the level of costs and activity usual to our unit to demonstrate that we are not talking about hundreds of pounds or asking for help with a World Jamboree it a skiing trip.

The district should be able to give a grant to help.

In my unit we've had girls whose family have struggled, and we've accepted delays, small instalments and reduced subs for siblings, and had parents offer activities instead of subs - one mum did a pottery workshop in lieu of subs, it was fab.

Having said all of that, subs is usually very, very low. £35 a school term is about standard. That's equivalent to £2 a week.

In our case, we deal with it at Group level not County/Regional level.

We have mixed backgrounds and always, always include a note on all requests for money to say any with difficulties to get in touch with Section Leader or any Leader of our section (Cubs). We also ask for money in a sealed (reused) envelope with their Cubs' name on the front (so we know who has sent in theirs). But for term subs (€20) I make it clear in Comms to parents that if they need to and don't want to talk, send in an empty but sealed and named envelope - their Cub is the same as everyone else then (and we know not to chase them).

For annual subs (registration, insurance etc) which are paid to Treasurer, we make it clear to talk to Treasurer or Section Leader in confidence as we have some resources to cover a few who would need it.

We also do a system of recycling 2nd hand gear and uniform annually. Official jumper and trousers, hiking boots, wet suits and booties, rain gear, etc - and if there are families we are aware of as being in need, we try and have a chat with them about what we have that would suit them before the list is issued to all parents. (Wetsuits because we are a sea scout unit).

We also provide the first necker to all Cubs, and an activity T-shirt. And we are not very strong on uniform - yes neckers are expected but full uniform only required for a couple of events per year and we accept any kind of active gear as many come either side of sports training etc. For boating, while wetsuits are really useful, we don't require them and a shorts/T-shirt over swimming togs and a pair of old shoes that don't come off feet (safety in harbour). And we suggest lots of cheaper gear from Regatta, Lidl, Aldi, Trespass etc - we point out camping and hiking weeks for Lidl/Aldi etc. And we don't need big rucksacks or fancy camping gear etc. Many Cubs use their school bags for hikes, and a gear bag they already have (or even bags for life shopping bags) for going on camp.

The funny thing is almost no parent gets I touch to say they are. Having difficulty. From time to time there may be 1 or 2 raise their hand. What is more likely to happen is families who seem to be managing fine just don't pay and need to be chased (more for annual registration fees and trip fees), or who will grab all the decent gear we have for sharing. I never chase the term fees as I could call on group funds if I needed extra to cover craft material, badges, neckers etc.

I volunteer with brownies and we have the advanage of living in an affluent village so we know most of the families and have a vague idea of their financial situation and only a few would struggle with subs. If a family can't afford it we simply tell them not to pay. We always have uniform being passed around so we offer it to people who might struggle to pay.

www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/running-things-locally/grants-and-funds-for-your-local-group/grants-from-ukhq/grants-for-members-struggling-with-costs/