The last unacknowledged domestic violence

[MangoSeason]

You are a 15 year old girl coming home from school. A 17 year old boy is following you. He shoved you into a wall at school today. He called you a cunt. He knocked your books out of your hand. The teachers just told him to stop being a pest and then walked away.

At your garden gate he suddenly is upon you and slams you into the ground. You get gravel rash. Your neighbour rolls her eyes and goes inside. You get to the front door and get inside. Not safe of course. Your parents are not home and he follows you in because he is your brother and he lives there.

You rush to the laundry and lock yourself in. You stay there until your mum comes home. She’s cross of course. She has been working all day and comes home to this. She says you two are old enough to sort it out yourselves. You must have provoked him. You are too sensitive.

You once tried telling your head of year. He laughed and said all siblings fight and you will be best friends in a few years. You tried again and told the school safe-guarding lead. They took it a bit more seriously and spoke to your parents. Your parents were furious at you. You are called a drama queen, trying to get your brother into trouble over normal sibling rough and tumble. Get over yourself! Your whole extended family is unhappy with you. Fancy speaking to the school about your own brother. What an untrustworthy wuss you are.

There was a school assembly with the local police about domestic violence. You learn what you should do if your parents hurt you. What you should do if your parents hurt each other. There was nothing mentioned about what to do your brother hurts you. You think about speaking to the police officer afterwards but what is the point? No-one cares. It will only upset your parents. It seems it is perfectly acceptable for a nearly fully grown boy to physically assault you if he is your brother.

Sibling violence is an under researched area of domestic violence. Most people don’t understand what it is. They think it is sibling rivalry. The risk factors for sibling violence are having authoritarian parents, siblings close in age and siblings being latch-key kids. The perpetrator is usually the oldest and strongest sibling. Most common is older brothers targeting younger sisters, followed by older brothers targeting younger brothers. Less common, but still frequent is older sisters targeting younger sisters. Older sisters targeting younger brothers is the least common, as the brother will become physically stronger than the sister at puberty. Sibling violence is characterised by the persistent targeting of one or more siblings by a stronger sibling. There is little back and forth. One is the perpetrator and one is the victim almost all the time.

Society doesn’t know how to handle it. Schools and police bat the issue back to parents who are the least able to act properly, as they love all their children and bury their heads in the sand.

Just want to out this out there. If you work with children and they complain that their sibling is hurting them, please take it seriously.

[Shehasadiamondinthesky]

I've seen this many times and horriblyvthese types of people also tend to show cruelty towards the animals in the family who can't defend themselves. This must be taken seriously.

[GiveTheGirlAGun]

I deserve the hurt. If I'd been as physically and emotionally horrible to anyone else in the same way, I'd have been punished. This is my punishmeny that I live with.
I have my own family and precious DC, who I can never bring myself to raise my voice to, let alone anything else.
I am sorry to everyone who was a victim of this.

[TwoAndAnOnion]

@Stompythedinosaur

I think this post is over dramatic tbh.

There is a body of research about sibling abuse.

Take a night in A&E, and you'll see its not dramatic. There's a lot of sibling abuse, half and step where they are cohabiting and are thrust together because of parental dynamics. This does paint the male as the aggressor, but believe me, there are many female siblings who are vicious. It's not just school-aged children either, it continues to happen, especially through the 20's were everyone is still living in the same house.

[itsgettingwierd]

@LetMeSewYouToASheet

what’s your AIBU…

That's what you took from this?

Thanks for highlighting this issue.

For me it was my younger but bigger than me sister.

It destroys you and your relationship with your parents. Also trust.

[Auntienumber8]

DH older sister used to bully him, he relayed stories of her holding him down and spitting in his face. She is still a bully, had MIL on the phone a few times crying about her. I won’t see her, she did some awful stuff to me. They are still scared of her I feel. It’s the only issue in my marriage.

For me my younger sister was the bully. She was actually the same size as me though three years younger. I was so small as a child I was taken to a paediatrician for quite a few years. I did eventually make 5ft4 but was in age 2 to 3 clothes aged 5. It wasn’t physical but she used to get me in to trouble and could fake cry on demand. We had very authoritarian parents and a beating would ensue for me if she cried saying I had done something. She did this knowing I would get hit with the bamboo stick kept for this. She would laugh in the background.

Both of them are really horrible adults, neither has had a successful relationship. I used to feel sorry for SIL but getting to know her over the years it’s obvious why, even her own Mother admits it now. None of my siblings will speak to the younger sister at all.

[justanotherneighinparadise]

The one benefit is if you e gone through it as a child you are so much better at seeing it as a parent. I am lucky enough to be a SAHM so I have the opportunity to really see the sibling dynamic that goes on with my two and directly I see some power play that’s overstepped I nip it in the bud straight away. Both of them do it. The eldest uses his size abd weight, the youngest is a wind up merchant.

[Comtesse]

Family systems can come with love and support but so much pain and humiliation as well. If a stranger did these things to you, you’d call the police - but you’re taught to swallow it for the sake of the family system. Sickening isn’t it?

@GiveTheGirlAGun what I read in your posts is that you were a victim of abuse and projected your pain at your brother. You were a little child with terrible parents, I look at that with compassion not like you were a bad person

[S0upertrooper]

I had older brothers and one of them bullied me, hit me and there were undertones of sexual abuse. He was 8 years older and would do things like tickle me for too long, repeatedly poke me and lift my skirt up. When I got my first trainer bra (I was probably 10 or 11 and he was 18 or 19) he would ping the straps and repeatedly tried to get me to take my top off to show him.

Our parents both worked full time and DM was an alcoholic, other brothers had left home. There was no one to tell and I'm not sure what I would have said. Years later my SIL (not his wife, another brother's wife) confided that she thought he was making "dirty phonecalls" to her. It didn't surprise me.

His wife hated me, I think she was jealous but as I got older i spoke up for myself and she didn't like that. They are born again Christians who think they are right about everything. I haven't had contact with him for years and have no intention of seeing the bastard ever again.

[MangoSeason]

@justanotherneighinparadise

The one benefit is if you e gone through it as a child you are so much better at seeing it as a parent. I am lucky enough to be a SAHM so I have the opportunity to really see the sibling dynamic that goes on with my two and directly I see some power play that’s overstepped I nip it in the bud straight away. Both of them do it. The eldest uses his size abd weight, the youngest is a wind up merchant.

True. Although I do worry that I overreact when my children get physical with each other. However, that has pretty much stopped now as they approach the tweens. The other day, DD8 got student of the week. The other 2 ran to the car so fast to tell me the great news. They were so happy and excited. It made my heart sing. I wouldn’t have dreamed of telling my mum I had an assembly award. The punishment from my brother would have been too great.

[Excited0803]

@GiveTheGirlAGun - Any other punishment would be long over by now and you deserve to be happy. You have more than enough sadness in not seeing your brother, you don't need any more than that. Make friends and be happy.

[pointythings]

I did know it was a thing because it happened to a classmate of my DDs. She ran away and ended up staying with us. I reported to Social Services. They were actually excellent and engaged with the family and the abuse stopped, but the father and the older brother (who was the perpetrator) hate my guts. The mother on the other hand was very grateful. Unfortunately she has been too downtrodden to leave. Oldest DD never goes home and family is still very toxic.

[NameChangeGameChange334]

Name changed for this but your OP struck a nerve with me. My (younger) brother has always been a nightmare and treated me like crap. I had a horrible time growing up with him and was never defended by my parents as we were just ‘siblings fighting’. He made my life hell and I lived in fear. He used to whip me with cables, batter me with coat hangers, he threw a house brick into my face, hit me with a cricket bat, had a knife to me, has called me every single name under the sun, screamed in my face… this was all growing up.
As an adult he’s pushed me, verbally abused me, pushed me over when I was pregnant, stolen my car (he can’t drive), broke into my house… . He is now blocked and I am
Very very low contact with him. My mum finds this upsetting as he is ‘my brother’. He makes my parents life hell. I asked my mum what she would do if my partner spoke/treated me the way he did and she said she’d tell me to keep as far away from him as possible so I’m not sure why she thinks just because we happen to have the same parents I should be anywhere near him.

He has a child now and him and his ex(they’re very on and off) are chaotic. It’s only now as I have gotten older (I’m in my early 30’s) I’ve realised that i grew up in an abusive household and he continues to abuse my parents and will do forever. I hate him and if I never saw him again for the rest of my life I wouldn’t give it a second thought

[Lalliella]

Excellently written post OP, very thought-provoking. to anyone who has been through this including you @GiveTheGirlAGun

[Thomasina7]

I have recently gone nc after decades of abuse from my older sibling. I am the sort who likes information to help process experiences and feelings otherwise I can not explain it in a coherent way to others. There is a real lack of research, support, acknowledgement of this type of abuse in families. A real problem with the view that we do not allow partners, friends, work colleagues to behave this way towards us but siblings ... well... life is too short to make a fuss about that! As well as a real problem of society belittling the experience of victims of this type of relationship.

You are not being dramatic in the slightest op. In fact, the full story doesn't end where you ended yours. It is in the lack of self esteem that affects your decisions, its relationships and inclusion in family events, its imposter syndrome, its not being able to fulfill your potential because all your life you have been told your role, your worth, your ability. The results are so far reaching; you are not being dramatic in the slightest.

[Californiabakes]

Thanks OP. My older sister made my life unbearable. We are very close in age and my parents were (are) authoritarian. She’s still awful, but only to me, not my other siblings.

[NameChangeGameChange334]

And yes seeing other people’s relationships with their siblings is mine blowing. My DH has 3 siblings and they are so close, laugh all the time, support each other and can sit and scream with laughter and childhood memories they share. I have NOTHING like that. Which makes me sad. Another friend of mine meets with her brother for tea once a week just to catch up. I have one ds and I’m not sure I’ll ever be having anymore and I feel really sad that I’ll never be privy to that kind of relationship

[TheDailyCarbunkle]

I'm the middle girl of three, one is a year older, the other is seven years younger. The older one bullied both me and the younger one, relentlessly. There was some physical violence between me and her but I gave as good as I got and as we're matched in strength it was more fighting than beating. Her tool was psychological torture - constant taunting and endless irritating and pointless behaviour. At about 13 I told her I was going to pretend she didn't exist and that's what I did, I just stopped engaging with her entirely. I had to because I couldn't tolerate the stress of interacting with her any more. Unfortunately my younger sister got the full brunt of it after that. Neither I nor my younger sister speak to her at all now and my mother just ignores the issue, same as she did when were young.

The thing that bothers me is that, while her behaviour was obviously awful for me and my sister, the person who was really let down was her. Good parents would have looked at how she behaved and said 'that's not normal' and would have tried to get her help. If her behaviour had involved burning things or smashing windows or even self harm she'd have had a greater chance of someone recognising that things weren't good for her. But because she was engaging in an extreme of 'normal' behaviour and because of the time we grew up in no one recognised that a 14 year old goading, taunting and annoying a 6 year old on a daily basis, for hours on end, to the point that the 6 year old is crying out in agonised frustration is not normal. It should have raised a huge red flag. Maybe for other parents it would have but my parents' approach to everything is 'head in sand, say nothing.'

My younger sister and I are very close but our older sister is in the position where her two siblings don't talk to her. She has struggled to hang on to relationships with men (largely because men have a much lower tolerance for abuse, if she were a man she'd be long married to a wife that hated and feared her) and she depends a lot on my mother for companionship. Her life is ok, but I think if my parents had recognised how badly things were going wrong for her they could have done a lot to support her and generally improve things for her. I strongly suspect she's autistic (there are a lot of autistic traits in my family) and a lot of her behaviour was an expression of the confusion and stress she experienced trying to deal with a world that didn't make much sense to her.

The abused siblings have a terrible time. There's no doubt about that. But the abusers are children who, for whatever reason, are unable to have a normal relationship with the people closest to them. That should be a concern. That child should have help, as soon as possible. They are not villains. They're kids. If it gets to the point where the child has to be removed or some sort of serious action has to be taken against them then they've been let down as much as the abused siblings.

[TheSockMonster]

This is so sad. Families can do awful things to each other.

My MIL was bullied, physically and mentally, by her older sister who was jealous of the all the extra attention MIL got due to illness and disability. They are in their 70s now and their relationship is still strained. Her sister once told me that a small shameful part of her will always hate MIL for being the favourite, even though she knows it was not her fault.

Her own children, my DH and his sister, also have a very dysfunctional relationship. I am sorry to say that I thought he was exaggerating until I persuaded him into a big family holiday and saw it play it in front of me.

Our own DC adore each other and so I hope we have managed to break the cycle.

[newnortherner111]

OP whilst it may not be universally ignored, you are right to highlight it. Just as much if not the majority of all other forms of harm to children and young people come from other family members.

Including this as part of safeguarding training and that for the police and other agencies would be one action.

[TheDailyCarbunkle]

I would add that because I have more empathy now for my older sister I feel horribly guilty for not having more of a relationship with her. I feel a responsibility for her, but interacting with her gives me a sort of PTSD reaction that I can't cope with and her behaviours are so embedded and she is so unable to conduct a normal relationship that I feel like any effort I make to engage is essentially a waste of time - she falls back into demands, manipulation and insults so quickly that there's just no way to steer to it to anything healthy. It breaks my heart because it's likely we'll never be able to connect with each other.

Parents should be made aware of the fact that extreme behaviour towards a sibling can be a symptom of deeper problems - mental health or social disorders for example - and that it's not a matter of just stopping the behaviour, it requires investigation to see why it's there in the first place.

[billy1966]

So many sad stories with awful, lazy parents ignoring what is in front of them.

@Mummyoflittledragon that explains the Robert Thompson part of it.

They obviously came from awful backgrounds but the sibling abuse adds another layer.

These stories do not surprise me at all.
Abusers were children once.
They don't wake up one day as adults and decide to be nasty abusive bullies.

They were nasty abusive children before.

@GiveTheGirlAGun it readsto me that you were equally a victim in your home.

Try and forgive yourself.
The child you were deserves kindnessand compassiontoo.

[LadyEloise]

Thank you @MangoSeason for making me aware of this. It's not something I've encountered in my own life, thankfully.

[Ickythefirebobby]

It’s not actually classed as domestic violence when it’s children being violent. I would have thought it’s more of a safeguarding issue.

[LizzieW1969]

My relationship with my DB is very complex, as is my DSis’s. We both suffered sexual abuse at his hands, but the real perpetrator was our F, who sexually abused us and allowed others to do so, including my DB. He was abused by others but not by our F. (Our F died many years ago now.)

Now he’s much more damaged than we are; he can’t function as an adult at all. He probably suffers from complex PTSD like we do, but he’s never been diagnosed, as he’s never acknowledged any memory of what happened. (We repressed our memories as well, but they came flooding back when we had young DC. This was around 7 years ago.)

My DM knows what happened now (she didn’t when we were growing up), but she’s too protective of our DB to understand the damage that his own actions have caused us. It’s understandable, because of the way he is now, but I do resent it at times. This makes me feel guilty about it.

We reported all our abuse to the police several years ago. The police decided that there was no public interest in prosecuting him. (There’s absolutely no indication that he’s an abuser as an adult, he only ever did it as a child under the influence of grooming.) But it’s meant that we haven’t allowed any contact between him and our DC, which my DM respects, but she’s always going on about how lonely he is.

[Callywalls]

I was youngest of three. Violent and abusive brother four years older than me. Then older sister who just kept out of it all. Brother was a star footballer and the apple of my dad's eye. I was constantly punched, kicked and verbally abused by him. I was told to stop telling tales and not act like a baby if I complained or cried. Apparently, it started when I was a baby and he was jealous as I was getting attention. It was the family joke that whilst my dm was feeding me he'd go behind the settee and throw his toys over at me, saying he hated me. That should have rung alarm bells but it was the late sixties and things were different then. His abuse continued through to late teens when he told lies to my dad about my friends and the people I went out with, anyway he could to try and get me in trouble. We were both latch key kids and I dreaded being alone with him after school, if I fought back it only justified more violent attacks in his eyes. He's now been married three times and had numerous broken relationships. He's suffered major financial problems over the years, sometimes he's come to me, the little sister he hates and I've bailed him out. Now both our parents have passed away, we are no longer in contact but I have helped his ex wife raise his ds, who is like another son to me and I adore him, he couldn't be more different to his dad thank goodness.