1 single person in a 3 bed council house

[Fyptk]

20ish years ago this person exchanged from a 1 bed flat to a 3 bed council house because relatives were moving in with her, so all the bedrooms were needed.

Fastforward a few years and those relatives all moved on and the single person remained in the 3 bed house.

To get out of paying bedroom tax they claim the other bedrooms are used for something to do with their work which they are not. The rooms are unused apart from storing excess clutter.

Meanwhile here in London (where this person lives) families are stuck in hostels and overcrowded rooms whilst the local burroughs housing register has in excess of 10,000 people on it waiting to be housed. The minimum wait for a 3 bed house here is 10 years.

AIBU to think they are selfish?

I’m renting it @Countrygirl2021 so yes I do have a choice

Just like those with mortgages don’t own theirs until it’s fully paid years down the line

And when you rent the CONTRACT states that you are then living there. So yes I should have a choice.... I do have a choice..... and I also have a choice of BUYING my home at reduced price

Which we may well do

@Treacletoots do where would you put all these ‘unreasonable’ people with too much space then? Where?

Maybe they could go on swap sites and actually look for a smaller place since 99% of people on swapping sites are people needing bigger properties, very rarely do you get people on them looking to downsize, those people are too busy moaning that there aren’t any smaller properties when really they haven’t bothered to look 🙄

There is a world of difference between an available property and a suitable property. If a one bed flat on Home Swapper is twice the distance from your place of employment or is three bus rides away from your elderly mum or is in a bad area or on the top floor of a mid-sized block with no lift then you're not going to want to take it as you'd be worse off. Why pay all the moving costs for somewhere you're going to hate, that's in n inconvenient location, and that you're going to resent living in when you're uprooted from the community you were settled in? That's not even beginning to consider the fact that the council have power of veto over swaps and can block them for a variety of reasons, for example if either party has rent areas, if either party doesn't meet rhe criteria for the offered property, if either is in poor repair, if either party doesn't meet the criteria for the area they want to move to (for our council if you want certain areas you need to show a link to that particular parish and preference is given to those who are already living in the community, this is so that people don't have to move away from the villages where they live and work).

as already said...the HA and council have to approve the swaps....and if criteria is not met they don't allow it. so 'they' have to stay put. and actually,there aren't that many suitable properties on home swapper

the only one currently on mine would mean a change of school for ds and at 14 i'm not happy to do that. and it is a house costing £48 more....yes,more rent for a smaller house. and we spent £400 recently on a decorator which we wouldn't get back. (as the contract states we need to keep our home in good decorative order)

it would also mean a large hike in car and house content insurance due to the area its in.

@Happycat1212 do you have experience of that?

I know atleast 3 people who had major issues trying to swap to a suitable home. It's really not as easy as you think - from a 1 to a 3 you need a chain and in my own experience very few want a 2 around here.

One couple was/is stuck in a 3 bed in a nice area because there are no 1 beds nearby meaning they would have to find new jobs in their 60's.

A physically disabled lady I know was stuck in a 3 bed adapted home because she couldn't find someone who was approved to swap into it in exchange for an adapted 1/2 bedroom.

Another was a man in a 4 bed. He takes his grandchild two nights a week whilst his daughter works but he's only entitled to a 1 bed. He has said he'd happily swap for a small 2 bed but that's not allowed.

All of these people wanted to downsize and would've been happy to accept something that suited their needs but if they can't get that then why should they give up a home that suits their lives?

cross posted with you @BlatantlyNameChanged but i'm glad to see a voice of reason on this batshit thread

Yes I do, I’m on many swapping sites and I myself was in a one bed flat with 3 children (so was entitled to a 3 bed) but no one would swap with me because it was 3rd floor with no lift.

Another was a man in a 4 bed. He takes his grandchild two nights a week whilst his daughter works but he's only entitled to a 1 bed. He has said he'd happily swap for a small 2 bed but that's not allowed.

Yes that wouldn’t be allowed and I agree with it, only children that live in the household are entitled to their own rooms.

It doesn’t have to be home swapper either there are a lot of mutual exchange groups on Facebook, that’s where I mainly look. I was in a one bed needing a 3 so I stood no chance as no one wanted a one bed on the 3rd floor, if someone is giving up a 3 bed they want at least a ground floor/ garden to make it worth their while, seriously go and look on the Facebook swapping sites 99% of people are looking for bigger properties, it’s very rare anyone wants to downsize and anyone that does gets hundreds of comments , whereas those looking for more rooms barely get a response.

Personally, I think this is wrong. PIL live in a 5 bedroom 2 bathroom council house with a massive garden, I know it’s been their home for the past 30 years, but can’t help feel it’s unfair to the hundreds of families who are squashed into much smaller properties. I don’t think the council even builds properties that size anymore.

i'm in a HA 5 bed/2 bath property. yes they do build them

but where do you expect your parents to go?a 1 bed,2?how when they are rare and would need a swap from someone in that 1/2 bed to be in a position to swap with them. whats the chance of that happening?

Another was a man in a 4 bed. He takes his grandchild two nights a week whilst his daughter works but he's only entitled to a 1 bed. He has said he'd happily swap for a small 2 bed but that's not allowed

Yes that wouldn’t be allowed and I agree with it, only children that live in the household are entitled to their own rooms

But HappyCat that means this man just hung onto a 4-bed he didn't want, and which other people would have made good use of, so he could carry on looking after his grandchild. It's common sense that allowing him to swap to a 2-bed is better use of housing stock than by trapping him in a situation where he feels he has to stay where he is.

My mum lives in a 3 bed council place herself. She’s lived there for 15 years, has spent thousands of pounds doing it up. Pays full rent so no issue of bedroom tax.

There is literally zero incentive for her to move, if she moved to a 1 bed her rent would be a grand total of £35 a month cheaper.

Happycat, non resident parents are entitled to an extra bedroom - even if the children are only there 2 nights a week so why shouldn't he be?

Very few people on our local FB page want a 2 bed so they're not rare around here. Surely freeing up any larger stock is better than nothing? Instead he's sitting in an empty 4 bed and probably won't be moving as a result. Who is that benefiting?

non resident parents are entitled to an extra bedroom - even if the children are only there 2 nights a week so why shouldn't he be?

Not in my area they are not.

Well that's a shame, they are here.

Access and Care of Children
Applicants may only include children who live with them permanently. Children who live permanently elsewhere or where there are contact arrangements may not be included.
Where the family is separated, and the children reside equally between two parents, then a decision will be required on the size of property that each party is eligible for. In reaching a decision, the Council is entitled to consider:
• Whether any court order reflects the reality of current living arrangements
• The extent to which there will be overcrowding or under occupation at each property. The extent of any under occupation (i.e. by how many bedrooms) and the demand for this size of property will be relevant
Where there has been a change in contact and residency arrangements, proof of parental responsibility is required before it can be considered. This may include confirmation from a social worker, a special guardianship order, a child arrangement order or a solicitor’s letter.
Where there is suitable accommodation available for the child(ren) elsewhere and there is no risk to them if they remain / return the Council will not, in these circumstances include the child(ren) on the applicant’s Housing Register application. However, it will consider doing so following enquiries and where risks have been confirmed by agencies involved with the child(ren), such as Children’s Services and the police. (Please also see section 3.2 of the Allocations Scheme ‘Who can be included on an application’).

Direct from my councils allocations policy. Children staying 2 nights a week would not be entitled to their own room.

Ok,so it's not standard. That's fair enough, but it is here so under our rules the man I mentioned should be entitled to a 2 bed as he has caring duties

Also, I'm not sure how it works in other areas but our councils/housing associations all seem to have different ideas on how many bedrooms a family is entitled to especially when it comes to ages of children sharing a room etc.

The rules need to be clarified.

@MontysRoseGarden

i'm in a HA 5 bed/2 bath property. yes they do build them

but where do you expect your parents to go?a 1 bed,2?how when they are rare and would need a swap from someone in that 1/2 bed to be in a position to swap with them. whats the chance of that happening?

She must want disabled people including victims of domestic violence dead or on the streets. They need studio and 1 beds but can't have them if taken by downsizers.

Yes my council says there needs to be 4 people in a one bed before it’s considered over crowded which is ridiculous

Loads of people in 2 bedroom houses/flats are wanting to swap for bigger ones here, so they could have their pick of house in any area. It just doesn’t make sense to me that people are sitting with empty rooms.
Not entirely sure how my comments on people being in appropriate sized houses for their needs made you reach the conclusion I’d like disabled people or domestic abuse survivors dead or on the streets.

That is ridiculous Happycat, our one beds are overcrowded with 3 family members over the age of 5 (atleast one being an adult obviously!)

@Thistles24 that only applies of they qualify for an extra room. An elderly couple/single person with no children wouldn't so they'd need to form a chain which complicates things further.

E.g.
4 bed looking for 1 bed would need to find someone in a 3 bed who qualifies for a 4.
The 3 bed would need to find a 1 bed who qualifies for a 3 bed to free up the 4 bed.

You can't just swap whenever you want.

Ok full disclosure, I changed some details when writing my OP as I didn't want to out either myself or this relative but it's important to give the full picture especially as people have noted that using the spare rooms for work wouldn't mean they're exempt from bedroom tax.

The full story is as follows.

This person is a relative of mine. They don't work. They have MH problems which means they have regular visits from a community MH team, and are sectioned 1-3 times per year.

They claim that the spare rooms are used by the MH team who come and provide support and occasionally stay over, but they're not. Nobody stays over. They are unused apart from acting as storage for alot of clutter.

Despite living in this house for over 20 years they struggle to maintain it as there is surplus space for their requirements.

They haven't invested money into their home, infact if anything it has fallen into a state of disrepair.

We believe they would be better off in a one bedroom flat or supported accommodation which they would be able to maintain better. They don't need all of that space, infact it's a hindrance to them, but there are plenty of families crying out for such space whom are stuck in hostels for years at a time.

Ah, that makes more sense.

In our area he would be entitled a 2 bed - 1 for a carer and 1 for himself. Even if it was only occasionally used.