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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

1 single person in a 3 bed council house

313 replies

Fyptk · 17/05/2021 11:19

20ish years ago this person exchanged from a 1 bed flat to a 3 bed council house because relatives were moving in with her, so all the bedrooms were needed.

Fastforward a few years and those relatives all moved on and the single person remained in the 3 bed house.

To get out of paying bedroom tax they claim the other bedrooms are used for something to do with their work which they are not. The rooms are unused apart from storing excess clutter.

Meanwhile here in London (where this person lives) families are stuck in hostels and overcrowded rooms whilst the local burroughs housing register has in excess of 10,000 people on it waiting to be housed. The minimum wait for a 3 bed house here is 10 years.

AIBU to think they are selfish?

OP posts:
Ju11tne · 17/05/2021 17:36

@Happycat1212

This could be about my ex! He is a single man in a 3 bed council house in central London! He rents out all the rooms and is allowed to do this and due to the location he gets a lot of money, his council allow it and he’s still allowed to claim benefits as well 🤦‍♀️ Meaning he pays pennies in child maintenance.
Why do the housing allow it?
Happycat1212 · 17/05/2021 17:40

Why do the housing allow it?

Lots of councils were advising people to take in lodgers because of the bedroom tax and according to UC money from lodgers isn’t counted as income no matter how much they get.

freakyfridays · 17/05/2021 17:52

trappedsincesundaymorn

you are not addressing my point at all.

If you are RENTING, why do you think you should have more than a tenant's right on the property?

If you cannot buy -meaning pay in full - a property, it's not yours! Why is that such a difficult concept? Confused

freakyfridays · 17/05/2021 17:57

@jcyclops

"Bedroom Tax" should be an actual tax on spare bedrooms - applicable to renters and owner-occupiers and irrespective of benefits entitlement. It should be a multiplier of council tax. Second home owners would be charged on the combination of both homes (eg. family of 4 with 2 three-bed houses = 3 spare bedrooms).
why on earth should an owner-occupier, or a PRIVATE tenant no using any benefit, should be taxed on their rooms? Confused

The issue is people benefiting tax-payer money, directly or indirectly. As long as you are in the private sector entirely, it's no-one's business how many rooms you have. If you want to, privately, rent a property with 2 dining rooms, a play room and 2 guests room, it would be ludicrous to tax your choice.

the bills sent to the royal family would be amusing, but they would find some loophole anyway

trappedsincesundaymorn · 17/05/2021 17:59

I know it's not mine, but as long as the rent is paid then why should I be forced to move?

Tumbleweed101 · 17/05/2021 18:00

If you earn enough to pay full rent the bedroom tax is irrelevant.

I'm looking to be in this situation in a few years once my children are grown and move out. I don't intend to move just because the bedrooms are no longer used. I anticipate them being used for grandchildren and my children visiting etc. I might move eventually if my personal needs change but not just because my house has more bedrooms than people.

EvilPea · 17/05/2021 18:01

I'm not sure cycling people away from their communities as their families change is necessarily a benefit to society either

Completely, it’s been their home. Incentivise people to downsize but it’s not that 1 persons fault as it is not that 1 buy to let landlords fault house prices are mad.

It’s the system that needs fixing.

trappedsincesundaymorn · 17/05/2021 18:01

Pressed to soon. Given that there is no 1 bedroom HA properties anywhere within a 15 mile radius of where I am living to now...where would I move to???

BlatantlyNameChanged · 17/05/2021 18:17

As long as you are in the private sector entirely, it's no-one's business how many rooms you have. If you want to, privately, rent a property with 2 dining rooms, a play room and 2 guests room, it would be ludicrous to tax your choice.

Over half of Housing Benefit claimants under the age of 45 and over 30% of claimants aged over 45 live in private sector accommodation.

That's a lot of taxpayer money going to private landlords and letting agents.

People in private accommodation are subject to Local Housing Allowance which sets the maximum amount of Housing Benefit that can be paid regardless of number of bedrooms or occupants. If they are also subject to the benefits cap then the LHA rate is further reduced to ring their income under the cap.

Just like the "bedroom tax", this penalises people who are already at a disadvantage.

BlatantlyNameChanged · 17/05/2021 18:19

If you earn enough to pay full rent the bedroom tax is irrelevant.

And so much this.

Not all social housing tenants are eligible for Housing Benefit, many are working and earn over the threshold for HB so pay full rent.

TroysMammy · 17/05/2021 18:23

I know someone whose disabled partner sadly died and it's just him in a 3 bed council house. They had massive adjustments inside and outside for the wheelchair which is no a no longer needed. I know It's his home but the cost of the adjustments could benefit a disabled person with a family.

freakyfridays · 17/05/2021 18:31

Over half of Housing Benefit claimants under the age of 45 and over 30% of claimants aged over 45 live in private sector accommodation.

fine, they should also be the ones targeted.

But people who rent privately, without any help or benefit whatsoever, have nothing to do in the debate, and shouldn't be taxed or penalised.

On the other hand, it would be a very dangerous move to penalise the landlords accepting to rent to benefit claimants.
The mortgage conditions already prevent quite a few to let their property to them. It's not even a choice.

Workyticket · 17/05/2021 18:34

My 78 year old Auntie lives in a 3 bed council house on her own. Has done all her married life (husband dies years ago)

She's desperate to move and is rattling round on her own. However the council can't find her a 1 bed place that's not a high rise flat so she's stuck.

BlatantlyNameChanged · 17/05/2021 18:42

But people who rent privately, without any help or benefit whatsoever, have nothing to do in the debate, and shouldn't be taxed or penalised

By that logic, neither should social tenants who are not claiming help towards their rent which is the case now as bedroom tax only applies to people claiming HB.

However penalising the vulnerable creates more problems than it solves.

BlueBrownbin · 17/05/2021 18:44

I wouldn’t give up my council house even if all my dc have left home. It’s my home and I want to live here till the day I die

Ju11tne · 17/05/2021 18:50

@BlueBrownbin

I wouldn’t give up my council house even if all my dc have left home. It’s my home and I want to live here till the day I die
A bed house with probably get too much for you at some point. I will be glad to down size no point cleaning extra rooms with no children once they have left home.
XenoBitch · 17/05/2021 19:09

My parents are in a council house that is too big for them... been there 30 years. But then they are not claiming any benefits, and will be paying rent on it until the day they die. They had option to buy years ago but didn't. They will have paid more in rent than if they had bought it. Council are winning money wise in their case.

CherryCherries · 17/05/2021 19:19

There is no such thing as a family home housing shortage in the UK. There is a housing crises of people in wrong sized properties for their needs though which as a consequence I'd causing a shortage of homes for younger families.

Meruem · 17/05/2021 19:43

There are many reasons not to want to move. I’ve lived in more than one place where neighbours played loud music all the time and there’s nothing can be done about it. Oh you get told to keep a “noise diary’ for months and then what? Nothing happens. I have been close to a breakdown before because of it. Where I live now is peaceful and quiet. I have no issue with any of my neighbours. (Well the people at the back have a few parties but I sleep at the front and don’t hear it). So no I don’t really want to move to a flat and risk having to put up with all that shit again.

My house was a wreck when I moved in, it was an exchange so if I wanted it I had to take it “as seen” the HA wouldn’t do anything to fix it up. I could see the potential and was willing to do it but I’ve spent a lot of money on it.

Like others have said, smaller properties aren’t much cheaper, a few £s at most. Not worth the hassle of moving etc. I pay my rent so the bedroom tax doesn’t affect me.

Ultimately I have a secure tenancy, so yes for my lifetime, as long as I don’t get into rent arrears or turn it into a drug den or something! So people can go on as much as they like about it being unfair etc but posters on MN are not going to make me give up my home! Lockdown has made me appreciate it even more so I will only move if the day comes when I physically can’t get up and down the stairs.

MyDcAreMarvel · 17/05/2021 20:33

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash Council housing is funded by the tax payer
No council housing is not for profit the rent funds the council housing either via tenants wages or HB/UC.
However it is cheaper for “tax payers” to pay towards social housing than private rents.

MontysRoseGarden · 17/05/2021 20:35

Also, you can’t just swap with someone else unless you both meet the criteria

To downsize from 5 to 3 beds I have to find my own eligible swap.... so I have to have 4-5 people to move to a 3 bed and those moving from 3 to 5 bed need at least 6/7+ people...

I can’t just swap with someone who has 4/5 people. It’s so difficult

A 3 bed house sleeping 6+ people will be wrecked....beds rammed everywhere,shelves everywhere,extra storage ..I don’t want it thanks,I’ll stay here

tropicalwaterdiver · 17/05/2021 20:35

Bid for council house Oxfordshire

Happycat1212 · 17/05/2021 20:45

To downsize from 5 to 3 beds I have to find my own eligible swap.... so I have to have 4-5 people to move to a 3 bed and those moving from 3 to 5 bed need at least 6/7+ people...

That shouldn’t be too hard, my council say you need to have 8 people in a 3 bed before it’s considered over crowded so won’t help many larger families so they will be looking for swaps instead. I do think a lot of people make up excuses not to downsize.

littlepattilou · 17/05/2021 20:51

Good post @Meruem

littlepattilou · 17/05/2021 20:51

@Meruem

There are many reasons not to want to move. I’ve lived in more than one place where neighbours played loud music all the time and there’s nothing can be done about it. Oh you get told to keep a “noise diary’ for months and then what? Nothing happens. I have been close to a breakdown before because of it. Where I live now is peaceful and quiet. I have no issue with any of my neighbours. (Well the people at the back have a few parties but I sleep at the front and don’t hear it). So no I don’t really want to move to a flat and risk having to put up with all that shit again.

My house was a wreck when I moved in, it was an exchange so if I wanted it I had to take it “as seen” the HA wouldn’t do anything to fix it up. I could see the potential and was willing to do it but I’ve spent a lot of money on it.

Like others have said, smaller properties aren’t much cheaper, a few £s at most. Not worth the hassle of moving etc. I pay my rent so the bedroom tax doesn’t affect me.

Ultimately I have a secure tenancy, so yes for my lifetime, as long as I don’t get into rent arrears or turn it into a drug den or something! So people can go on as much as they like about it being unfair etc but posters on MN are not going to make me give up my home! Lockdown has made me appreciate it even more so I will only move if the day comes when I physically can’t get up and down the stairs.

Exactly this.

Posters like @freakyfridays are just bitter and jealous of people in social housing. You often find the more spiteful, nonsensical crap coming from people who are jealous. Like 'my tax pays for your home.' WRONG. Taxpayers do NOT pay for social housing, and the upkeep/maintenance etc... The RENT that people pay for the property pays for it!

And despite what some bigoted fools think, not everyone in social housing is on benefits. 41% of people work, 20% are disabled or unable to work through illness, and the rest are retired, (with a fairly small % actually out of work/on benefits.)

It's also bollocks that children inherit their parents tenancies. Only if said child is an adult and is a co-tenant, and many councils and housing associations will not put an adult child on the tenancy agreement as a co-tenant.

Also, it's true (as many posters have said,) that there are very few 1 bed social housing properties. Maybe in That London there are more, but there are very few anywhere else. And many of them are a bit minging, are in fairly crap areas, and are really pokey, with very little garden, and nowhere to park.

I know a single person and 2 couples, who are all in 2 bed properties. They all want to move to another area, but will only qualify for a 1 bed home now. The 2 couples live in a 2 bed house and a 2 bed bungalow, and the single person lives in a 2 bed bungalow. The people who run the housing list where you have to register, (that around 8 different housing associations put their homes on to rent,) say no way will they get another 2 bed, even though they're in one now.

In the county they live, the 1 bed council properties are all pokey and in pretty average/slightly rough areas, and have no parking space, no driveway, and a postage stamp for a garden (front and back.) And the 2 beds seem to be bigger, with wider, bigger gardens, and driveways, and seem to be further away from each other. So they won't be giving up their 2 bed homes anytime soon.

As you say Meruem, why the F should anyone give up a place that is really nice, a good size, in a lovely area, and has good parking/big garden/good quiet neighbours etc........., for a shitty area, a poky, much smaller home, with no parking, no garden to speak of, and in a place where they know no-one, and where they will probably pay more rent? Just so the council can get a property back on their housing stock with one more bedroom? There's nothing in it for the tenants. So why should they sacrifice their lovely home?

As long as they're paying their rent and looking after the place, it's their home, and no-one has the right to say different, OR to say they should leave. The haters need to aim their bitterness and vitriol at the councils and the Government who need to be building much more social housing, and NOT at the people in social housing.