Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to agree that a 'fat tax' for airline passengers is fair enough?

86 replies

cestlavie · 13/11/2007 16:34

Story from Australia:

www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22735546-27977,00.html

Basically, that people should have to pay a 'fat tax' for airline flights in the same way that they would for checking in excess baggage. Seems fair enough to me. Planes have limited capacity and weight impacts on fuel costs.

The best defence they seem to have conjured up against it is "it's hard enough that they [obese people] carry that extra weight, physically and emotionally."

Really? Well how about exercising more and eating less then.

Bring on the flaming!

OP posts:
JeremyVile · 13/11/2007 18:10

Fat people exist. Always will.
The whole thing where an overweight person has to cram into a small seat (spilling over onto neighbouring passanger) or has to buy two seats (cant be comfortable and is a ridiculously 'sticky backed plastic' solution)should be scrapped.
There should be a proportion of seats that are larger, say 2 to a row instead of three.
These seats should be charged at a higher rate to compensate for the loss of some seats. 1.5 times a standard seat would be fair.
Problem solved.

(Re the cargo thing - disagree about passanger flights no longer taking cargo, but even without that the business passanger argument still stands and would more than make up for the exta weight of fat passangers).

MrsSlocomb · 13/11/2007 18:13

It is a fact is, is it not, that people are getting bigger and bigger??
Those of you defending overwight people must then believe that all obese people have a medical problem.
I put it to the jury that infact MOST overweight people eat too much and don't exercise properly.
Why is it that when I am out and about I see alot of overweight people eating shite food?
I'm sure a lot of 'slim' people eat shite food too, but if you're already overweight why make the situation worse?
I find it astounding that people moan for example about being too fat to fit into seats as if it's the seat's fault!

Original poster
cestlavie · 13/11/2007 18:14

minorityrules: yeah, I think that would work on an economic basis. As I said before, kids get a massive baggage allowance. If the person plus their baggage is still under the weight limit per seat they get some money back funded by passengers who weigh more and reduced fuel costs.

Pukkapatch: it's nothing like sexism, agism or any other 'ism'. You can't change your sex, you can't change your age. You can, however, change your weight. If you cannot change your weight by virtue, for example, of a medical condition you'd be exempt from this charging process

OP posts:
CarGirl · 13/11/2007 18:16

not read all of the posts but I think there should be a rising charges for how much people and their baggage weigh.

At 7stone I think there are lots of children travelling at reduced fair who are heavier than me and plenty of adults weighing twice as much as me. If the fares were set at a lower flat rate and their were excess to pay based on passenger weight & baggage taken that would be fairer all around as it is the amount of weight that increases the amount of fuel used which does influence the true variable cost significantly.

heavier people would at least have the option of taking less baggage and for once their would be an advantage for very vertically challenged people (apart from finding airline seat surprisingly comfy )

SenoraPostrophe · 13/11/2007 18:25

sounds fair enough to me, as long as the airline is one that charges less for children. I do resent paying adults fares for them on easyjet & co.

it doesn't make any difference that some people are fat "through no fault of their own". more weight=more fuel=more money/more emissions. and calling it a tax on the vulnerable is a bit patronising to fat people isn't it? other than in extreme cases (which would probably prevent flying anyway), fatness is not a disability.

some people have curly hair though no fault of their own, but they still have to pay more for shampoo if they want to be able to comb the stuff.

magicfarawaytree · 13/11/2007 18:25

cestlavie - i presume afro carribean extraciton and those with larger / denser bone structures not requiring an extra seat would be exempt because as far as I am aware reduce your bone density / build is not a recognised weight loss regime. What about height? people who are overweight because of diet do have a choice. Choices have a cost - if you need two seats - pay for two seats. Its economics

Carmenere · 13/11/2007 18:41

You do realise that if this ever gets introduced Ryanair will set the average weight at 7 stone for women and 8 for men don't you?

magicfarawaytree · 13/11/2007 18:45

My kids will be ok until they are 9 then

margoandjerry · 13/11/2007 19:32

How about charging individuals as individuals? Or would that assume we are all the same and all have equal rights?

If you start individualising these things you break down a lot of our sense of being part of a community. I wouldn't like to sit next to someone very fat on a plane but nor would I really like to sit next to someone else's child or someone smelly or someone who talks too much or someone left handed who wants to rest their left arm on the armrest when I'm right handed and want to rest my right arm on the same armrest.

The argument that the extra weight is costing us all more in fuel etc is just ridiculous. Can anyone work out as a percentage what 2 extra stone of weight (for example) would be as a percentage of the weight of the average fully loaded 747?

Heifer · 13/11/2007 19:39

Ok cestlavie - as long as you agree to a FUGLY tax, as I have to look at your nasty ugly face whilst on the same flight....

SenoraPostrophe · 13/11/2007 19:45

margoandjerry - why do they charge by weight and not by volume for baggage then?

loolop · 13/11/2007 19:53

God seriously some of you are so judgemental it's outrageous! IMHO all that would happen if they introduced this is overweight people would be too embarrassed to fly and the airlines would lose money anyway. Cestlavie I'm so very pleased you and your life must be so perfect

margoandjerry · 13/11/2007 20:02

to be honest, senora, I assume it's just another way of raising more money.

Also, if you think about it, human weight is self-limiting, just about. You might get someone weighing 25 stone but that's rare (though getting more common I guess). Normal distribution says human weights cluster around the mean and although that's moving up, it means you get more people weighing a stone or two more than they should and small numbers (relatively) weighing 10 stone more than they should. (It's a bell curve I'm describing here).

So although people are getting bigger, the average impact is reasonably small.

Whereas if there was no luggage limit, people could bring unlimited amounts of luggage. Literally. Since luggage can weigh any amount it's a greater variable than a body size.

Hope that makes sense - there's some interesting material on this in a book called Black Swan by Nicholas Nassim which is about extreme events.

SenoraPostrophe · 13/11/2007 20:06

I do see what you're saying, and I don't support charging by the kilo for weights over whatever, but should a man who weighs twice as much as me (i.e. about 20 stone I think - so, what, in the fattest 10% ?) pay the same for a flight? he shouldn't pay double, I agree, but he should pay a bit more surely?

and what about those passengers who need 2 seats (they do exist apparently)? should they not pay more?

margoandjerry · 13/11/2007 20:17

well, I dunno. I kind of think we all place different burdens on society in different ways. I am a single parent with a one year old and I'm sure it costs the airline more to load me and unload me than it costs them to do the same for a businessman with no luggage and no buggy because I need more help.

But I'm a relatively good customer for Sainsbury's because I buy high value stuff and I don't shop at their peak times so they gets lots of money from me but don't have to offer me much support. I subsidise the pensioners who only buy value baked beans and shop when the shop is at its most crowded.

And that's fine. If we really only want to pay for exactly what we "use" each time we'll gain in some areas and lose in others.

I'd really rather we just supported each other and gave up on the blame culture (and I speak as a virulent anti-smoker who does not agree that smokers should pay for their own health care)

jofeb04 · 13/11/2007 20:21

Read through this, pretty unworkable imho, unless they weigh everyone at checkout!

I'm over weight, not by choice. I haven't been able to walk until the past 6months, can't do exercise because of a problem with my pelvis.

What about my dh who is 5ft9, and strong built (no fat, muscle only)? What about everyone who is underweight, or parents with their dc on their knee.

Obviously different if they take up one of your seats, but I thought if they needed two seats, they pay for two.

expatinscotland · 13/11/2007 20:25

i don't care if they're fugly, old, black, green, stinky, whatever.

if they are lopping over into another seat they need to pay for another seat rather than some passenger only getting half their seat in order to be PC.

ELF1981 · 13/11/2007 20:25

No, I do not agree with a "fat tax".

If people are so worried about the amount of fuel airlines use (plus all the damage they do to the environment!!) then more people should HOLIDAY AT HOME!

And if one more things has to go up because the price of fuel has gone up, I'm going to get narked.

Heifer · 13/11/2007 20:27

Come of it Expat - how many fat people actually lop over to the other persons seat?

Most fat people (like myself) sit comfortably in their own seat - tis just a tight squeeze when we have the food tray down... and that won't affect you....

Brangelina · 13/11/2007 20:27

Instead of weighing people, which is not scientific as too many mitigating factors such as height, build etc., how about measuring people against a max width at check in, like they do for hand luggage? That way it will be noticed immediately if there is going to be overspill and the guilty party can be charged extra for every cm of overspill?

expatinscotland · 13/11/2007 20:27

ever lived in America, heifer? Cuz it's actually a not too uncommon occurance there.

Brangelina · 13/11/2007 20:31

I once nearly weed myself waiting for this extremely overweight American to prise himself out of the seat. Can you imagine what would happen in an emergency? I'd never have got past him.

Heifer · 13/11/2007 20:32

sorry Expat - was just downstairs asking DH if I lopped over to his seat when we fly?

No I haven't ever lived in USA, but surely the majority of fat people aren't so big that they do spill over...

expatinscotland · 13/11/2007 20:33

like i said, you gotta have been there to know.

it really is a lot more common than you think.

hence, why someone finally went to court over it. well, first he approached the airline, but they didn't want to know because everyone's so afraid of offending fat people.

and LA to Tokyo is a lllooonnngggg flight.

minorityrules · 13/11/2007 20:54

but in the USA, if you need 2 seats, you pay for 2 seats. I have seen very very large people being asked to sit in dummy seats to see if they fit, if not, they have to buy second ticket (saw it on an airline programme)

Very few people spread into the next seat, I know I don't and neither did my very large friend I mentioned