to be a bit miffed about my friends comments?

[Jaypreen]

Hi all. My 6 year old daughter's friend's mum and I are fairly good friends. We're both single mum's and we enjoy a good old chinwag with each other when the girls are together. She's nice, funny and friendly we share a few similar interests and are from fairly similar backgrounds - her and I. Today though she said something that I found a bit disturbing. Our two girls go to a catholic primary school where they get a bit of religious teaching. Nothing that could be considered fire and brimstone lectures or anything like that. It's very light, in that they do a short prayer three times a day learn about Jesus a bit, that sort of thing. My friend said in a rather mocking tone that her DD keeps coming home "with all this stuff about god and jesus" and "she keeps trying to convince me that god exists" and that "she gets all het up when I tell her I don't believe in god ". She told her [and these were her actual words] : " Look if you want me to believe in god then prove that god exists"! Her dd was disturbed according to my friend and she told her father all about it. He as a rather devout catholic was furious at her telling her this. My friend was actually rather proud of herself for being in her mind, the voice of critical thinking - or something like that. I tried not to react at all, but I have to confess - I was a bit disturbed and I'm not great at hiding my feelings.

I'm of Italian descent was brought up a rather strictly and I do believe in god. But I'm perfectly accepting and understanding of anyone who doesn't. I don't feel the need to convince anyone of what I believe and I'm not at all upset, shocked or perturbed that my friend doesn't believe, or is so anti. But I thought this was a very insensitive way to talk to this little girl, who through no fault of her own has found herself at a catholic school getting a 'Catholic education'. Surely there are better ways to break this information to her rather than being so blunt? How on earth can a child of six prove to her that god exists for goodness sake? Anyhow, the more I think of it, the more disturbed I am.

What do you think? Am I over reacting? x

[Doghead]

Massively overreacting OP. The same as most God botherers do when someone doesn't bow down to their warped thinking.

It's your friends right to bring her child up how she wants.

My son went to a Catholic school because it was the best in the area. We're not at all religious. I just chose to put his education first. It's often that simple.

[NoIDontWatchLoveIsland]

I dont get much choice but to send my child to a C of E school even though we are not Christians. Its the only school in the village and other nearby schools are oversubscribed, also the next nearest school is also C of E. This is a common problem in England where a lot of schools, especially in rural villages, are associated to the local school.

I will be explaining to my two that some people in god but that in our home we do not, and that it's important that they respects that other people can have different views and that's fine.

[Dozer]

So she’s an atheist and you’re religious, she was tactless, but not a big deal.

[NoIDontWatchLoveIsland]

Ps agree though - religious schools should not be allowed. There are far more Christian schools in the UK than they are practising Christians, effectively not enough atheist school places are provided for all the atheists.

Parents should be making their own religious choices, there's plenty of opportunity for religious education outside of school for those who want it.

[NoIDontWatchLoveIsland]

To be ultra clear- I, like OPs friend, won't be allowing the school to impose christianity on my DS & DD by default. They will be taught that it isnt a faith we follow at home, but that they can choose for themselves when they are grown up. I dont believe in indoctrination children. Children should be agnostic and taught factual information.

[Incognitool]

@Bluntness100

Meh, I think it’s good for the girl to get both sides of it. She can grow up and make her own decisions and not be indoctrinated that this is the truth and it can’t be questioned.

I agree. I had to send DS to a C of E village school because there were no non-C of E schools for miles and miles and work kept us in the area. What I hadn’t anticipated was the extent to which the new, evangelical vicar was in and out, and his conservatism and Biblical literalism.

[Aneley]

She probably could have handled it better, softer but I see no harm in a parent challenging child's views on anything, including religion. Your friend didn't tell her daughter that she (the child) shouldn't believe, she only said that she (the adult) doesn't believe in God and I don't see a problem with that. She could have chosen to send child to that school for any number of reasons (quality of education, lack of choice, pressure of a very religious partner) but that doesn't oblige her to endorse the religious bit for herself or to hide her beliefs (or lack thereof) from her child.

[MindyStClaire]

I don't think religion should be taught in schools as fact for all of the reasons explained above, but in fairness on the prayers three times a day thing, it wasn't a big deal in my school growing up. A short prayer at the start and end of the day and grace before lunch. They were only a few lines and I suspect were useful for the teachers to get us all settled in the morning and ready to go home in the afternoon! We're atheist and raising our kids without religion, but will have to send them to a religious school. I have lots of problems with that, but wouldn't be losing sleep over prayers in line with what I grew up with.

[pictish]

I sent my kids to a Catholic school despite being a resolute atheist. It is the best school in town and the smallest. Lovely school but of course, there is an element of Catholicism in the teaching. When they came home with religious chat I would say, “That’s what some people believe.”, and sometimes just, “That’s nice dear.”
It wasn’t an issue. I have been upfront about my atheism both to the school and to my children. I’m not rude about it but I am matter of fact. My kids have always been welcome to make their own choices in regards to religion. To my relief they’ve not taken up Christianity. Was a fantastic primary education though.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

You're not over-reacting, and it's a horrible place for the MOTHER to put her child in! ("Prove to me there's a God, Kid, or no dice" )

a) If there were PROOF, there would be no need for FAITH, and that's what religious belief is - faith in a deity/deities who created and are involved with the world. Where there is certainty, which is "definiteness", there is no need for faith, because faith is trust in something that can't be proven, or enforced.

b) If you don't want your child believing in/learning about God - don't send them to a faith school. This p*sses me off no end. People often want their children to go to faith schools because the ethos is so good and the discipline is one that lends itself to learning and kindness to others - then they complain when there are daily prayers, Jesus is mentioned (Christian schools, obviously), and then spend half of their time undermining that ethos.

And yes - I do have a dog in this race because I am a practising Christian. If this woman doesn't believe in God, that is her choice - and she can tell her DD that. That some people do believe, some don't, and the ones that do worship in different ways.

Let her listen to her child, disagree, but not undermine her. She may not realise it but she's putting her DD in a very difficult and upsetting position. She can say that sometimes people change their minds because of things that happen in their lives (and this change can go either way), but that the important thing is to live a good and honest life and be kind to other people and to the whole of the planet, and take care of it.

Whether you have a faith or not, this holds true.

[CecilyP]

Massively overreacting OP. The same as most God botherers do when someone doesn't bow down to their warped thinking.

Yet you actively chose a school run by ‘God botherers’ and warped thinkers?

[allaboutthecrisps]

Is she in the UK? If so then it may well not be her choice to have her child in a faith school. Some areas are just not served by secular schools. Personally I find the idea of my children going to a faith school abhorrent and so we would never have bought a house in a place which only had those. Maybe your friend feels similarly strong-armed into her child being educated at a place which shares some beliefs which she sees as problematic? I can't see this being any different really than a family insisting that god IS real to a child who is doubting it. If the child is really this distraught over something so minor I wonder what they are actually being taught at school? Fire or brimstone aside the idea of hell, which is fairly big in Catholicism, is pretty scary.

[whiteroseredrose]

I'm assuming the DD goes to a Catholic school because it was her father's choice. BIL had to agree to that when he married SIL.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with DC knowing that people have different beliefs. (Proof is not a winning argument though as believers don't require proof as they have faith!)

We had to put DS right when he came home from school having been told that a rainbow was God smiling (just after we'd taken him to the Science museum and played with prisms!).

[Imnothereforthedrama]

Religion like politics is always a sensitive subject but I’m baffled why anyone would send their child to a religious school if your not religious . You say the dad is so that makes sense but for me having a partner with different religious beliefs is not something I’d bring a child up with .
If she doesn’t care about religion one way or another then that is what she should say . If it was me I’d ask her why send the dc to a religious school and not get that they will learn about god . Sounds to me she hasn’t thought it through .

[Doghead]

@CecilyP

Massively overreacting OP. The same as most God botherers do when someone doesn't bow down to their warped thinking.

Yet you actively chose a school run by ‘God botherers’ and warped thinkers?

Did you read my post before posting your diatribe? Or is it just too early for you to read and ansorbe things properly? Or maybe you're just a bit thick. I chose the school the basis of it being the best in my area. I put my child's education first.

[Quartz2208]

I suspect that given the father is a devout catholic this was a battle she either decided was one not to fight because compromises and concessions were made for things she wanted or she did fight it and lost.

Because I suspect she never actually wanted to send her DD to a school where light is 3 short prayers. And I imagine she is now over compensating for that and giving her daughter her opposing view point to her devout catholic father by saying that in her belief God doesnt exist and she needs proof of it.

What is does highlight is having two parents of clearly diametrically opposed viewpoints regarding God and religion is very confusing for a 6 year old. When both are accepted and valid belief systems.

[Splicedbananas]

@SchadenfreudePersonified

You're not over-reacting, and it's a horrible place for the MOTHER to put her child in! ("Prove to me there's a God, Kid, or no dice" )

a) If there were PROOF, there would be no need for FAITH, and that's what religious belief is - faith in a deity/deities who created and are involved with the world. Where there is certainty, which is "definiteness", there is no need for faith, because faith is trust in something that can't be proven, or enforced.

b) If you don't want your child believing in/learning about God - don't send them to a faith school. This p*sses me off no end. People often want their children to go to faith schools because the ethos is so good and the discipline is one that lends itself to learning and kindness to others - then they complain when there are daily prayers, Jesus is mentioned (Christian schools, obviously), and then spend half of their time undermining that ethos.

And yes - I do have a dog in this race because I am a practising Christian. If this woman doesn't believe in God, that is her choice - and she can tell her DD that. That some people do believe, some don't, and the ones that do worship in different ways.

Let her listen to her child, disagree, but not undermine her. She may not realise it but she's putting her DD in a very difficult and upsetting position. She can say that sometimes people change their minds because of things that happen in their lives (and this change can go either way), but that the important thing is to live a good and honest life and be kind to other people and to the whole of the planet, and take care of it.

Whether you have a faith or not, this holds true.

I went to a religious school (not my choice) and a nastier load of bullying unpleasant people you couldn't hope to meet. There was very little kindness. Do you think that non faith schools don't promote kindness? The discipline might be true, though but it can also be not allowing children to be themselves and they're a bit stifled.

OP your friend may not have handled this well, she could have just said that some people believe and some don't, and it's up to her to make up her mind.

But I don't see why you're so disturbed. It's a very strong word and sounds like you're more upset that your own religious beliefs are being challenged by your friend. I doubt very much that her daughter is disturbed by it. Confused maybe, or upset, but certainly not disturbed.

[Hoolihan]

@tensmum1964

A lot of people talk about "respecting the religious beliefs of others" Whilst I don't ridicule people's beliefs, the idea that I should respect those beliefs is pretty ridiculous. I respect people's rights to practice their religion but not the religion itself.

Completely agree with this. And also all the people saying 'let them make their own minds up' - not much chance of that when they are being taught by their teachers that Catholicism is the literal truth.

My niece and nephew go to a Catholic primary because it is the only non-Muslim school in their area and my sister thought it would at least be a better cultural fit, even though she is not religious at all. I can only describe the education they are receiving as religious indoctrination, it's really sad. My sister is currently trying to move!

[Karwomannghia]

I feel sorry for the child hearing conflicting information and the confusion that must cause her.
I don’t think religion should be practised in schools.

[imalmostthere]

Not handled well, but her Dh is the devout catholic and she isn't. Saying you're disturbed by it is a bit far, how on earth has it disturbed you??

[ZaraW]

Agree being disturbed is an over reaction and none of your business. I went to Catholic primary school and the weekly confession was a nice brain washing exercise. I'm very much an atheist but can get rid of Catholic guilt.

[ZaraW]

Cannot...

[LesserBother]

On the 3 times a day thing being excessive, we used to say a prayer (same one learned by rote - 5 lines) every morning before taking the chairs down from the tables, grace before lunch, and every afternoon before putting the chairs back on the tables again. It was part of the routine in the same way that lining up before class and taking a register. It had about as much religious influence as saying a nursery rhyme each morning would.

[JosephineBaker]

YABU to overreact to it.

She’s got a devout ex and her child is praying 3 times daily? She should have phrased it better but she’s right to present an alternative view. It’s ok to think is all nonsense.

[C152]

I think you're over-reacting, but perhaps this is because you and your friend have different views on religion.