to be a bit miffed about my friends comments?

[Jaypreen]

Hi all. My 6 year old daughter's friend's mum and I are fairly good friends. We're both single mum's and we enjoy a good old chinwag with each other when the girls are together. She's nice, funny and friendly we share a few similar interests and are from fairly similar backgrounds - her and I. Today though she said something that I found a bit disturbing. Our two girls go to a catholic primary school where they get a bit of religious teaching. Nothing that could be considered fire and brimstone lectures or anything like that. It's very light, in that they do a short prayer three times a day learn about Jesus a bit, that sort of thing. My friend said in a rather mocking tone that her DD keeps coming home "with all this stuff about god and jesus" and "she keeps trying to convince me that god exists" and that "she gets all het up when I tell her I don't believe in god ". She told her [and these were her actual words] : " Look if you want me to believe in god then prove that god exists"! Her dd was disturbed according to my friend and she told her father all about it. He as a rather devout catholic was furious at her telling her this. My friend was actually rather proud of herself for being in her mind, the voice of critical thinking - or something like that. I tried not to react at all, but I have to confess - I was a bit disturbed and I'm not great at hiding my feelings.

I'm of Italian descent was brought up a rather strictly and I do believe in god. But I'm perfectly accepting and understanding of anyone who doesn't. I don't feel the need to convince anyone of what I believe and I'm not at all upset, shocked or perturbed that my friend doesn't believe, or is so anti. But I thought this was a very insensitive way to talk to this little girl, who through no fault of her own has found herself at a catholic school getting a 'Catholic education'. Surely there are better ways to break this information to her rather than being so blunt? How on earth can a child of six prove to her that god exists for goodness sake? Anyhow, the more I think of it, the more disturbed I am.

What do you think? Am I over reacting? x

[OhRene]

I'd have put my kid straight too. In fact, I do and my children attend the only school in our catchment. I don't get a choice.

Religion is a man (and I emphasise MAN) made construct in order to control the masses. Women must simply comply. Allowing a child to believe a 100's of years old man built a boat that housed a sample of every single animal on the planet while a global flood happened and killed all life bar his family, yet in the same school building you're trying to teach them science too? One is most certainly wrong and it isn't the science.

[Saltyslug]

The school is laying the religious aspect on thickly resulting in the child coming home with a firm belief in Jesus. Prayers three times a day will be a part of what’s going on in school hours. Having had 4 children at a catholic school I know the routine. Children are very impressionable and usually respond in infants with a full belief in what they are being told, moving on to reflection, doubt and awareness of alternative viewpoints. It’s normal for them to test the ideas with parents and normal for parents to be honest. I always told my children that I didn’t believe and that everyone was entitled make their own mind up about things.

The fact is that some people believe and some people don’t is just a fact of life. It’s perfectly fine for the friend to voice she doesn’t believe. To ask for proof when pushed is perfectly fine.

[CrumpetyTea]

freeload the high quality of the Catholic education system
This gets my goat- these are state schools they receive state funding- they also get tax breaks by claiming to be charities.
" Parents are entitled to raise their children within a faith tradition, but they are not entitled to enlist the help of the state to do so. The state should not fund proselytisation or allow the schools it funds to inculcate children into a particular religion" National Secular Society.

[allaboutthecrisps]

There are thousands of school that are not religious.
So selfish to take a place of a child who's parents want their child to attend a religious school and have a religious education.

They are not geographically evenly spread so it is not always possible to choose a non-religious school. Plus there is no justification for offering poorer quality education to people who are of no/ different faith. So selfish of religious people to expect to commandeer all the places in the best schools.

[MilduraS]

I'm very anti religion after spending my school years in catholic school. If it was my own child they just wouldn't be in a catholic school in the first place but if they were, I'd bite my tongue and nod along. It must be incredibly confusing to her DD to have her mother undermining the people she's supposed to be learning from.

[Dozer]

There may be thousands of schools that are not pushing religion, but perhaps not in every neighbourhood!

If you have a problem with admissions criteria, which although giving priority to people practicing religion at a specific church / place allow other applicants, take it up with the admissions authority and / or government. Don’t make derogatory remarks about people who choose a school for which they meet those criteria.

[RantyAnty]

Not a big deal really. She shouldn't be sending her DC there but like another poster said, maybe there aren't any other choices.

Religions came about from greed, opportunism, and a desire to control. Add in a charismatic leader or sky fairy to show people the right way.

It needs to be indoctrinated at an early moldable age to persist. Example of the 3 times daily prayer. A subtle form of brainwashing.

The sooner this nonsense goes away, the better.

[VashtaNerada]

She didn’t really say anything wrong (although possibly the tone was inappropriate if they child was distressed) but I tended to go for “people believe different things” at that age rather than “prove it”!! My DC have always known that I’m an atheist though.
I think it’s tricky if as an atheist you send your child to a religious school and I certainly wouldn’t do it. If your child thinks the teachers are ‘lying’ about god it could lead them to mistrust them on other subjects. Teachers and parents need to be on the same page and giving consistent messages at that age, otherwise it’s just too confusing.

[Lovelovelove21]

@Dozer

Not selfish for an atheist parent to choose a religious school, assuming admissions criteria are applied.

There are v few schools that don’t present religion as fact. Christian worship is present in many state schools not billed as religious, and many fee paying schools.

There are thousands of school that are not religious.
So selfish to take a place of a child who's parents want their child to attend a religious school and have a religious education.

[midnightstar66]

Hmm I can't see the problem apart from the fact the dc was distressed so she could have been a bit kinder but then this is 3rd hand info by this point so could not really have been the case. My parents were equally as blunt in their beliefs and although they hadn't chosen to send me to a religious school, it was a time where Christianity was presented as fact in non religious schools, all the songs were religious, we prayed at assembly. I was sent to brownies which was religious at the time too - I got in trouble there for telling the brown owl I didn't believe in god but apart from that no harm has come from my parents views and how open they were about them.

[HappyGoPlucky]

Totally inappropriate way to talk to a child. Very disrespectful in my opinion. I just agree with everyone else's comments. There are so many better and more respectful ways to address this child's beliefs. This was an example of very poor parenting - she was basically mocking her very young child.

[pictish]

Yes, I’m 45 and when I was at the local non-religious primary school we said prayers in the morning, before lunch, at the end of the day. We learned hymns and went to church for the big occasions...Easter and Christmas. The local vicar used to come in to tell us metaphorical Christian stories at assembly. “And that’s a bit like Jesus, isn’t it boys and girls?”
I went to two different non-religious primary schools in separate areas as a child and both were the same...promoting Christianity as standard. I certainly never thought anything of it as a child. It was boring.

I wasn’t worried about the Catholicism at my kids’ school owing to this...and true enough it was much the same but with a Catholic flavour. Ignorable really.

When we moved here my eldest son went to the local catchment school but there were glaring issues with it and my good lad was uncharacteristically unhappy there.
A friend suggested the Catholic primary and urged me to take a look.
I loved it immediately and they were more than happy to have us in spite of my lack of beliefs, so I transferred him over straight away. Best decision I ever made regarding my children. All three of them had a great experience there. No regrets.

[Mumoblue]

I don’t know. It does sound like she was very blunt about it but if her father has every right to share his faith with his daughter, her mother has every right to share her atheism.
I also don’t think her going to a catholic school makes that much difference to be honest. I was sent to a “non religious” school and they still taught us Christianity as if it were fact.
If someone is old enough to be introduced to the concept of Christianity, they’re old enough to understand atheism. I think the attitude of waiting until they’re older to tell them is clearly prioritising the dad’s belief system.

[HikeForward]

Personally I think it’s unethical to tell children god and Jesus are real when we have zero scientific proof. I don’t blame your friend for trying to challenge the school’s stories and songs. Children that age often can’t separate religion from fairy tales.

It seems like brainwashing young naive vulnerable children to tell them god and Jesus are real, watching out for them etc. I know lots of people want their kids to believe in their own faith but clearly your friend is not Catholic (even if her husband is).

Her views (whatever they are) are just as valid as yours. Many people send their children to Catholic or CofE primary schools because the school is often the only school nearby or the one with the best off-stead rating.

Some schools teach about all religions as in ‘this is what some people believe’ but that’s very different to a school saying ‘this is the truth’.

[Dozer]

Not at all hypocritical to choose the school that seems best for DC. Admissions criteria don’t fully exclude families that don’t baptise the DC / attend church.

[NaughtyNell]

Shes a hypocrite sending her daughter to Catholic school then

[Dozer]

Not selfish for an atheist parent to choose a religious school, assuming admissions criteria are applied.

There are v few schools that don’t present religion as fact. Christian worship is present in many state schools not billed as religious, and many fee paying schools.

[Lovelovelove21]

@pictish

I sent my kids to a Catholic school despite being a resolute atheist. It is the best school in town and the smallest. Lovely school but of course, there is an element of Catholicism in the teaching. When they came home with religious chat I would say, “That’s what some people believe.”, and sometimes just, “That’s nice dear.”
It wasn’t an issue. I have been upfront about my atheism both to the school and to my children. I’m not rude about it but I am matter of fact. My kids have always been welcome to make their own choices in regards to religion. To my relief they’ve not taken up Christianity. Was a fantastic primary education though.

Utterly Selfish.

[AryaStarkWolf]

@mustlovegin

How can you prove something doesn't exist?

Well, in science you would keep an open mind about it, wouldn't you?

About what exactly? In Science I would assume there would be some proof for it to be considered as existing in the first place

[Smallfry79]

I think when people hear 'praying three times a day' it sounds intense and extreme but in reality is just a couple of minutes spread out over the day. They are likely not on their knees reciting the rosary. It is a short prayer/poem in the morning expressing gratitude for a new day, at lunch time for the food available and those that prepared it and at home time gratitude for the day that has passed.
If you took the work God out of it it is actually a nice idea in line with modern teachings on mindfulness and gratitude.
At least thats what it was like when i went to a Catholic school. There was no wailing, chanting, breast thumping etc going on.

[ClarkeGriffin]

@Bluntness100

Meh, I think it’s good for the girl to get both sides of it. She can grow up and make her own decisions and not be indoctrinated that this is the truth and it can’t be questioned.

This. She was perhaps a bit too blunt about it, but you shouldn't be lying to your kids either.

I however wouldn't send my child there. That's not light what you describe, it's fairly heavy on them. It's not giving them a view of other religions, and although I don't have any belief, I think it's good for kids to learn about all religions equally. It promotes understanding of other people's beliefs and not just on one certain one.

[mustlovegin]

How can you prove something doesn't exist?

Well, in science you would keep an open mind about it, wouldn't you?

[AryaStarkWolf]

Why didn't you or someone who was having a discussion with this person who said "Prove that God exists" not turn around and say "Prove that he doesn't - you doubting Thomas you!".

How can you prove something doesn't exist? If I said I believe flying pink unicorns exist how could someone prove they don't?

[LookItsMeAgain]

I went to a Catholic primary and secondary school.
Why didn't you or someone who was having a discussion with this person who said "Prove that God exists" not turn around and say "Prove that he doesn't - you doubting Thomas you!".

Also, Catholic has a capital C here as we're talking about the Roman Catholic Church here. When capitalized, Catholic refers to the Catholic Church. With a lower-case "c," catholic means "universal" and "inclusive." If you listen to anything from hip-hop to Baroque, you have catholic taste in music. (I took that last bit from a definition on the internet and it's just to be respectful of those who have faith)

[ZaraW]

@mustlovegin

I will let someone from another faith defend or critisise their own as is their right

I would assume you are no longer a Catholic if you can speak in such an unnuanced manner about the RC Church?

I could say exactly the same for you. Your defense of it is very weak.